Basketball
- Thread starter valacirca
- Start date
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Awful. Easily the most shocking celebrity death I've ever experienced.
Kobe's legacy was a topic of discussion all day among sports circles, with LeBron having passed him in the all-time scoring list and paid a tribute to him just yesterday. The latest text message exchange I had with my closest friend prior to him informing me of Kobe's death hours later was a discussion regarding Kobe, prompted by the aforementioned achievement.
Takes some time to wrap your head around it.
Kobe's legacy was a topic of discussion all day among sports circles, with LeBron having passed him in the all-time scoring list and paid a tribute to him just yesterday. The latest text message exchange I had with my closest friend prior to him informing me of Kobe's death hours later was a discussion regarding Kobe, prompted by the aforementioned achievement.
Takes some time to wrap your head around it.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I was never a huge fan of his ... either his game (obviously he was a good player, but I don't think as high on the list as most) and obviously the Denver thing has (and should) really hang over his head ... but this still sucks .. even worse that his 12 year old daughter and 7 other people were with him, sounds like one of them being a friend of the daughter
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
What bothers me is how quickly people forgive and forget with celebrity deaths. Bryant was a diva. He was selfish on and off the court and never lacked in drama and scandal. He was unfaithful to his wife and thanks to his money and status swept it under the rug buying her a very expensive rare, pink diamond ring.
I'm not saying what happened to him, his daughter and the others on board isn't tragic. Only saying he gets litte if any sympathy from me. This instant sainthood upon death is ridiculous.
I'm not saying what happened to him, his daughter and the others on board isn't tragic. Only saying he gets litte if any sympathy from me. This instant sainthood upon death is ridiculous.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Could not agree more. Off and on the court.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Also, wasn't he accused of raping someone and then the charges were dropped? Probably because he had his victim paid off.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
It's inane and out of touch to assume that people's eulogies for him are just the result of them "being quick to forgive and forget with celebrity deaths". Nobody has forgotten anything about Kobe. Everyone remembers how he was like as a player and teammate, and the things he got involved in off the court.
Kobe inspired millions upon millions of people with his commitment to work, drive to excel and incredible resilience. He had tremendous impact on many young men who perhaps would not have grown up to become as successful as they have had it not been for his inspiration - many of these people came from poverty-ridden backgrounds.
He was an intellectually sound and cultured man, which is a rarity among athletes. He was, by all visible evidence, a caring father to his four daughters and was involved in many charitable activities. He meant something to so many people, it went beyond being a stand-out athlete, it certainly went beyond his celebrity status.
The case in Denver hasn't been forgotten, whether it be from its adultery angle, or the sexual assault allegation. He has shown tremendous amount of regret for his actions and that sort of behaviour hasn't been consistent with him. Both his wife and his accuser seem to have forgiven him - regardless of what the cause may be. It's certainly not something to be excused or brushed off, but it's completely unfair to discredit the man for that one reprehensible action. He has done far too much good, and has done far too little bad to be beholdened to that individual case, as large as its magnitude in the scale of moral judgment is. Him being a diva or a selfish player and so on. Meh. That's fluff in the grand scheme of things.
I wasn't a fan of Kobe Bryant, in fact I disliked his style of play for the very same reasons as you and @bearfan pointed out - though being a passionate basketball fan I did respect him greatly as an athlete. That doesn't keep me from giving him his just due.
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The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
You may disregard everything about his legacy as a person- it doesn't mean jack squat that you do so- but you can't act like people have forgotten what happened and that's why they can celebrate Kobe as a person. That's inaccurate.
Also, it wasn't a minor - it was a 19-year old. Kobe and his accuser were only a few years apart in age. The case was quite blurry and it remained an accusation. To compare the case of Kobe Bryant to R. Kelly shows that you are not acting in good faith here. Utter nonsense.
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Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
It stayed accusation thanks to his million of dollars and superstar status, no different from Wienstien or Epstien in my book. I may have gotten the age wrong, doesn't change the charges of assualt or his behavior towards teammates and family. Seriously? He bought his WIFE a 4 million dollar plus I'm sorry ring. Remember what Chris Rock said in his last special, "women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally. A man is loved on the condition he can provide something. My grandmother used to say, a broke man is like a broke hand, can't do nothing with it." The whole thing reeked of privilege.
My point is, not every superstar deserves blind adoration.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
There is no way of knowing how the case would have resolved. The case was much more inconclusive than you are making it out to be - and he wasn't a repeat offender. Again, it's utter nonsense to compare Kobe's case to R. Kelly, Weinstein or Epstein. Completely unjustified and inane. Sorry to be blunt, but you don't appear to know what you are talking about as it pertains to Kobe's sexual assault case. The statements on both sides suggested that the sex started consensually and Kobe became too overly aggressive for the accuser and continued to be aggressive despite the accuser not wanting to continue. That's clearly unacceptable, but it's not as clear as just clear cut sexual assault and drawing the line for consent in such cases is quite difficult. What is clear though, is that it's nowhere near cases like R. Kelly, Weinstein or Epstein and it's completely unjust to hold them as equal offenses.
It's kind of a big deal in this case. It also displays your inadequate level of information regarding the case - which I've already suspected due to your ridiculous comparisons.
Accusations.
It's none of my, or your, business to question the rationale as to his wife forgiving him and keeping the family together.
I don't share your views on "privilege". People can be rich and have high social status. It's fine as long as it's not the result of corrupt, unethical practices. It isn't in the case of Kobe Bryant. He was an immensely talented individual whose work ethic was the stuff of legends and he provided entertainment and inspiration to millions upon millions of people. You seem to dismiss the relevance of this, but it's much more impactful and relevant than you appear to think - I don't see his wealth and status, or the impacts of his wealth and status as problematic. Perhaps it's a worldview difference between you and I.
I know that's your point. However, my opinion is that you are combining that general sentiment, which is fine, with a particular disdain for Kobe Bryant, which clouds your judgement as to why exactly Kobe Bryant is receiving the type of adoration he currently is. It's not blind adoration, far from it.
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Of all the people I guessed would engage in victim shaming, Forostar is not who I would have guessed.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Remember not guilty is not the same as innocent.
OJ Simpson
Casey Anthony
George Zimmerman
All people that literally got away with murder.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
A bullshit accusation which I will now report.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
True, but innocent is not one of the verdict choices. It's either guilty or not guilty and not guilty is not the same as innocent. It only means the state failed to state their case beyond a reasonable doubt or at all. Zimmerman is a great case regarding the state fucking up a case completely.
