❤ Dating Advice For MaidenFans Thread ❤

[Night Prowler]

Best non-music related post I've seen here.

 

[Nyx]

Well thank you, NightProwler. That's quite the compliment.

 

[Saapanael]

A funny memory about seeming like a douchebag just came to me. I was about 15, riding on the bus, sitting in the window aisle. There was one more pair of seats in front of me and then a glass border that reflected the people sitting before me. I was completely zoned out for a while, in my thoughts, looking through the glass, not at its reflection. And when I came back to earth, I realised that at the exact spot I was staring, the glass reflected the breast of a young woman sitting in front of me. She noticed, mistook me for staring at her, turned around, gave me a look of utter shock and disgust, and turned around again. It was very embarrassing but I hadn’t done anything wrong. Coincidences can be funny.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

the breast of a young woman

This is a Harris epic in an alternate universe where he plays for Van Halen

 

[Jer]

Alright, here I am. In a hazmat suit, given this thread has a different sort of pandemic problem.

Mostly a great post.

It's not helpful when girls are vague yet somehow expect someone to magically understand everything without at least some kind of clear input, flirting, or direction. I can understand why it makes some people want to facedesk into a toilet.

Amen. And this happens entirely too often. Nearly every woman I’ve met in my life has had some baseline expectation that if a man “really knew her” he’d magically know exactly what she’s thinking and expecting and would deliver it to her without her having to ask. Her having to ask for what she wants is seen by her as a failure on the part of the man. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

This whole man-made trope about females loving guys to be jealous because it shows 'they care' is a bunch of twaddle. Real men show they care all the time by their actions and how they treat a lady. I have never tolerated, and will not, any form of jealousy. Insecurity or lack of self-confidence, however, is different. I'm empathetic to that, as I think most people are, and happy to give reassurance. but jealousy and possessiveness? No thanks. Warning sign for everyone. run away!

I think the truth is somewhere in between the extremes here. There are certainly women who don’t trade in soliciting jealousy, but I have repeatedly encountered situations over my life where otherwise well-adjusted women will create situations as a test to see if they make the man express concern or mild jealousy, as doing so would supposedly prove that the man “really cares” about them. This happens more often if they’re going through a phase where they feel like they aren’t getting enough attention from their partner. And some women, if the man “fails” the test by trusting their partner and not acting jealously, will see this as justification to cheat. I definitely agree that women who meet that last criterion should be avoided, but it’s often difficult to know the difference between that flavor of person and the more mainstream “demonstrate that you care” flavor.

Any further jokes, allusions, or comments about rape or forcing yourself on a female, (since the offenders are over 18 according to their profiles) and I swear to you, you will suddenly become the subject of a great deal of attention outside of this forum from places you do not want it from. What you talk about in private with people is your own business, but if you dare be public with it, promoting violence against women, don't blame me for the consequences when others are made aware of it.

…and here’s where you lost me, and possibly violated forum rules in the process. Threatening to run around and blackball someone for making a joke you personally find to be in poor taste is outrageous, even if that’s considered to be socially acceptable behavior by a growing number of people these days. Mob “justice” is always wrong, even when you happen to agree with the mob. I suspect your view on this sort of thing would be different if you were on the receiving end of that sort of social terrorism for something you had personally said or done.

 

[Night Prowler]

A funny memory about seeming like a douchebag just came to me. I was about 15, riding on the bus, sitting in the window aisle. There was one more pair of seats in front of me and then a glass border that reflected the people sitting before me. I was completely zoned out for a while, in my thoughts, looking through the glass, not at its reflection. And when I came back to earth, I realised that at the exact spot I was staring, the glass reflected the breast of a young woman sitting in front of me. She noticed, mistook me for staring at her, turned around, gave me a look of utter shock and disgust, and turned around again. It was very embarrassing but I hadn’t done anything wrong. Coincidences can be funny.

I thought this was the dream thread

 

[Perun]

And finally, a 'disclaimer', yes lets call it that, for the less gentlemanly fellows here. Any further jokes, allusions, or comments about rape or forcing yourself on a female, (since the offenders are over 18 according to their profiles) and I swear to you, you will suddenly become the subject of a great deal of attention outside of this forum from places you do not want it from. What you talk about in private with people is your own business, but if you dare be public with it, promoting violence against women, don't blame me for the consequences when others are made aware of it. Don't §$%& with me, boys. Or I'll have less respect for your lives than America has for international borders.

I haven't read your post in its entirety, as I only scrolled through the board on my phone on the bus today, so for the moment, I'll only respond to this because it caught my eye: Rest assured that we have a zero-tolerance policy for sexual harassment and promotion of violence on this board and consider it an offence warranting instant banning.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Harassment?
We never got to harassment, as far as I recall, someone who said something in vain "I'm a man so you as a woman won't understand" was promptly warned.

It's a very decent forum. Certainly not a place where someone could get harassed verbally. For one off idiots, mods are around on the task.

 

[Nyx]

Mostly a great post.


Amen. And this happens entirely too often. Nearly every woman I’ve met in my life has had some baseline expectation that if a man “really knew her” he’d magically know exactly what she’s thinking and expecting and would deliver it to her without her having to ask. Her having to ask for what she wants is seen by her as a failure on the part of the man. Which is, of course, ridiculous

I think the truth is somewhere in between the extremes here. There are certainly women who don’t trade in soliciting jealousy, but I have repeatedly encountered situations over my life where otherwise well-adjusted women will create situations as a test to see if they make the man express concern or mild jealousy, as doing so would supposedly prove that the man “really cares” about them. This happens more often if they’re going through a phase where they feel like they aren’t getting enough attention from their partner. And some women, if the man “fails” the test by trusting their partner and not acting jealously, will see this as justification to cheat. I definitely agree that women who meet that last criterion should be avoided, but it’s often difficult to know the difference between that flavor of person and the more more mainstream “demonstrate that you care” flavor.

I can't tell if this is just trolling, or if you are really this inexperienced with women. You sir, reach new levels of profoundly horrific ignorance. Since when did you live as a girl? And from what unspoken travesty of a book or source are you getting this Freudian and perpetually defeatist nonsense?

If I had to make a guess, this is likely based on one or two people from your past. Woman as a whole aren't your punching bags for whatever situation you may have had with someone and how you feel about it. Though with all this generalization of yours, I can't say I'm surprised. Are you capable of thinking in any other context with women?

…and here’s where you lost me, and possibly violated forum rules in the process. Threatening to run around and blackball someone for making a joke you personally find to be in poor taste is outrageous, even if that’s considered to be socially acceptable behavior by a growing number of people these days. Mob “justice” is always wrong, even when you happen to agree with the mob.

No wonder you keep having experiences with terrible women, if you've had any at all. The rest of us wouldn't go near someone like you with an attitude and ethics like that, and so little respect for us.

Its a hate crime, and the only people that find that funny have terrible moral compasses to begin with, and often, according to public crime statistics the world over, are the ones committing the very crimes this promotes. The only exception being those too life-inexperienced and young to see beyond it, yet.

It's not bad taste, its not poor humor, its $%&/ing traumitizing is what it is, for many women, and its promotion of violent crime. And it is this very same bs that keeps encouraging abusive people, and making them think they can violate someone elses rights and personal welfare to satisfy their own selfish and petty desire for power and control. No one, has the right to do that to anyone.

Really? You are defending the promotion of violent abuse, something thats a crime to do to people in pretty much every country on the planet, and of the higher branches of criminal offense. And you want to talk about the forum rules? What I said was perfectly legal, and I only said it because its necessary. Let me guess, if someone promoted violence against targeted races or orientations, you'd be fine with that as well and find it funny? If youre fine with joking about violence against a targeted group, in this case women, then what's the difference? Every man I know, would be offended by this greatly. How bloody insensitive can you be?

And yes, because of men like you, we have no choice but to defend ourselves, and we will do what we must to ensure our safety. As for many years the situation has been the other way around pretty much everywhere, when it wasn't even necessary and was just blanket discrimination. We only do it because we have to, to not deal with this kinda crap ALL the time.

As I said, what you talk about in private is your own business, but when people put it up here, to poison young minds, make the forum look bad, encourage the public sphere, and potentially influence people to commit violent crimes against a targeted group, then you should know better. You invite that the second you do it. I may be boisterous, but at more core, sir, is ethics. Something you clearly have far too little of in general.

I suspect your view on this sort of thing would be different if you were on the receiving end of that sort of social terrorism for something you had personally said or done.

Yeah, thats precisely the issue. I have, every damn day of my life. It's called being a girl!

Not to mention LGBTQI+. Not to mention being part minority (Japanese) living and growing up in countries where racism exists. So believe me, I'm a $%&/ing expert on that.

You clearly lack any ability to look beyond your own self-formed ideas and privileged ignorance, and simpy want to recieve validation of your misplaced hate for women. And to bare such negative pointlessness is a waste of my, and everyone else's time here, and I decline to speak with you further.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

…and here’s where you lost me, and possibly violated forum rules in the process.

Nah, it's about jokes putting yourself in the context of a rapist which I don't think anyone ever does. No one uses women rape for banter, etc. The context of a rape "joke" is usually I hope that pedophile molester gets raped in jail.

Also @euromaiden, try using more arguments and less ad hominem and armchair psychology.

 

[Jer]

I can't tell if this is just trolling, or if you are really this inexperienced with women. You sir, reach new levels of profoundly horrific ignorance. Since when did you live as a girl? And from what unspoken travesty of a book or source are you getting this Freudian and perpetually defeatist nonsense?

Wow, that’s an interesting response to a post where I overwhelmingly agreed with you. It sure looks like you’re looking for opportunities to throw punches rather than have a conversation.

Since when did you live as a man? Do you understand the turmoil of being forced into a position by societal norms where you’re expected to constantly stick your head out only to have it metaphorically chopped off at the whim of the woman whose desires you’re supposed to divine and fulfill based solely on nuance and inference? No, you just rage against the patriarchy because it feels good and there’s some truth to your argument. But reality is more complicated than bumper sticker slogans and reductive assumptions.

If I had to make a guess, this is likely based on one or two people from your past.

And your guess is wrong. I’ve had long-term, live-in relationships with women of latina, black, and Asian descent, along with other white women, and I’ve been happily married to an O.G. Chinese (not ABC) woman for nearly 8 years. All of my experience, directly with romantic relationships, and through female friends and family members, supports the views I have expressed.

Woman as a whole aren't your punching bags for whatever situation you may have had with someone and how you feel about it. Though with all this generalization of yours, I can't say I'm surprised. Are you capable of thinking in any other context with women?

This is just empty invective that doesn’t respond to anything I said.

No wonder you keep having experiences with terrible women, if you've had any at all. The rest of us wouldn't go near someone like you with an attitude and ethics like that, and so little respect for us.

Who’s generalizing now? Is it more important to you to project an aggressive, punk, anti-sexist image than to have an actual conversation?

Let’s talk about actual impact. Clearly you’re fond of armchair activism. What have you done in the real world to concretely have a positive impact on women’s lives? Before I retired I was a director at technology company. Every time I encountered a case of a woman being underpaid or having a title below what she deserved, I immediately rectified it and informed HR of my findings so they could do their own comparisons in other departments to see if others were being treated unfairly, and could fix the problem. I made sure several women got proactive fair treatment, positively impacting the rest of their careers, and may have influenced HR to help more. I may not have made a huge difference, but I certainly did what I could within my little slice of the world. What have you done? Is it possible that I’m objectively more anti-sexist than you through my own actions? Would you even be willing to admit that if it were true?

Its a hate crime, and the only people that find that funny have terrible moral compasses to begin with, and often, according to public crime statistics the world over, are the ones committing the very crimes this promotes. The only exception being those too life-inexperienced and young to see beyond it, yet.

Again, this is just empty invective based on nothing. Jokes are jokes. You may find them funny or not. I thought 9/11 jokes shortly after 9/11 were hilarious, but many people disagreed. Gilbert Gottfried lost his Aflac gig because he made 9/11 jokes “too soon”. I think that’s dogshit. If you don’t like a joke, fine. But different people respond differently to these things. Some people like to make fun of terrible things because it takes the edge off of them. People finding something funny that you find offensive doesn’t harm you in any way, and you should be adult enough to allow space for people who disagree with you to do their thing.

It's not bad taste, its not poor humor, its $%&/ing traumitizing is what it is, for many women, and its promotion of violent crime. And it is this very same bs that keeps encouraging abusive people, and making them think they can violate someone elses rights and personal welfare to satisfy their own selfish and petty desire for power and control. No one, has the right to do that to anyone.

If someone is literally threatening others, then that should be addressed. If someone is just making a joke that you feel is in poor taste, then you just need to learn to coexist with people who disagree with you.

You cannot fully support both free speech and the concept that no one should ever say anything that might offend someone else. Those two things are incompatible, and the latter is unachievable, as pretty much anything can be interpreted as a microaggression by someone these days. So if you believe in free speech, you must be willing to tolerate comments you hate. Period.

Really? You are defending the promotion of violent abuse, something thats a crime to do to people in pretty much every country on the planet, and of the higher branches of criminal offense.

Nope. Jokes you don’t like are fundamentally different from acts of violence. And threatening to socially terrorize people who say things you don’t like is unacceptable.

Your threat doesn’t have teeth if you’re only threatening to go to other sites and say “this person with username X said things I don’t like, and here’s a link”. It has teeth if you’re implying that you’d dox the person, which I believe would be against forum rules. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you’re threatening here.

Let me guess, if someone promoted violence against targeted races or orientations, you'd be fine with that as well and find it funny?

Again, your guess is wrong, and your desire to present yourself as a riot grrrl is apparently more important than having an actual conversation.

Every man I know, would be offended by this greatly. How bloody insensitive can you be?

Straw man.

And yes, because of men like you, we have no choice but to defend ourselves, and we will do what we must to ensure our safety.

Straw man.

As I said, what you talk about in private is your own business, but when people put it up here, to poison young minds, make the forum look bad, encourage the public sphere, and potentially influence people to commit violent crimes against a targeted group, then you should know better.

How have I poisoned any young minds? How have I made the forum look bad? How have I influenced young people to commit violent crimes? These are outrageous accusations that have no basis in fact.

I may be boisterous, but at more core, sir, is ethics. Something you clearly have far too little of in general.

You don’t know me, you’re completely off base, and you’re obviously more interested in presenting a certain image than in having a real conversation.

You clearly lack any ability to look beyond your own self-formed ideas and privileged ignorance, and simpy want to recieve validation of your misplaced hate for women. And to bare such negative pointlessness is a waste of my, and everyone else's time here, and I decline to speak with you further.

Wow, you’re a real piece of work. The arrogance, the multiple layers of incorrect assumptions, and the outright bile in your words say far more about you than I ever could. Yet I still agree with most of what you wrote in your initial post in this thread. Perhaps you could turn the volume down by about half.

 

[Night Prowler]

@euromaiden and @Jer, both of you please calm down.

We don't allow rape jokes, and if someone posted them, it'd get deleted and that user would most likely be banned. I don't know why it was brought up in the first place, as I don't see any of that in this thread or any other threads for that matter. So no need for brigading threats there.

I don't get the argument between you two in the first place as it seems you mostly agreed with each other. Either way, if you wanna talk in a more respectful manner to each other here, feel free to continue, if not, I'll just start deleting your posts.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

I've used to read this thread as light-hearted entertainment and here we are in the midst of something Sabaton could write a song about

 

[KidInTheDark666]

Sheesh this place really blew up.

 

[Jer]

I don't get the argument between you two in the first place as it seems you mostly agreed with each other.

Same here.

Either way, if you wanna talk in a more respectful manner to each other here, feel free to continue, if not, I'll just start deleting your posts.

I think you’re drawing a false equivalence between her post and mine, but I agree with your goal.

 

[Forostar]

Not that false. Even if (and maybe therefore because) such remarks have not been made in recent times, the matter that was brought up is still a serious one. Some things are not seen as jokes, or I daresay as well: they are not jokes. So instead of taking account with the difficult issue (and with the other), I would not turn this into a freedom of speech discussion and go full attack, taking a jab at (punk) image.

Yes there was an attack before that as well, but that was because of the downplaying or ignoring of the matter.

There was a threat yes, and perhaps it was better to have trust in the moderators. But still it was about something that should not be easily turned into "jokes".

So yeah this got rather unfriendly.
Solution:
- have trust in moderation
- do not keep saying a joke is a joke when things like that should not be joked about

Just my 2 cents. I'm not a mod, but wished to give my view on this.

O, one more thing..
Fine to know how someone behaves under a real name, faŕ away from the forum.

However, on this forum it matters what people (anonymously) do here. The internet is a real world too. It counts as well. Words do matter.

 

[Perun]

- do not keep saying a joke is a joke when things like that should not be joked about

I'd like to expand on this a little.
Yes, joking about a terrible thing and the terrible thing itself are not the same. Some people use jokes and humour to process traumatic experiences. There are women who have been raped who laugh about rape jokes.
However, not everyone is the same and not everyone has the same reactions. If you make an edgy joke and people don't laugh or even tell you they feel offended, the worst way to respond to that is by telling them they're wrong or they're overreacting. Accept that one woman can laugh about your rape joke and another can't and won't. Accept that people are different. If your joke is not appreciated by the people you made it to, then accept that you made it to the wrong people. If you don't want to be in the company of people who don't laugh about your jokes, look for different company. Sometimes it's you, not them.
And this isn't a response to anything specific said by @Jer or @euromaiden or specifically directed at either, just a point made by @Forostar that I felt deserves special emphasis.
Now I just suggest either chilling out here or walking away from this debate and, if necessary, making use of the "ignore user" function.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Per, there's a difference between being offended and actually threatening the other party with harassment.

We don't allow rape jokes, and if someone posted them, it'd get deleted and that user would most likely be banned. I don't know why it was brought up in the first place, as I don't see any of that in this thread or any other threads for that matter. So no need for brigading threats there.

NP, let me go out on a limb here and let me guess:

I believe it might have started as an overreaction to this post of mine

She probably won't protest or fight back. Strength is irrelevant.

Which is the only post here that in any way, shape or form might remind someone of a rape joke.

I haven't been reprimanded and/or banned for it and if I were, well, this forum wouldn't be a place I'd like to return, anyway.

Honestly, I don't care. Although I don't particularly like being threatened in general, as of now I'm just putting this person on the ignore list, because it's Christmas (yeah, still) and I want to be generous.

Also, adding to what Jer says there (and you won't find me agreeing with him very often) let me just stress that inappropriate jokes (herein represented by rape jokes) are probably generally of dubious taste and might be frowned upon, or may be against the rules of this very forum (did I indeed break any rules, @Perun ?)... but in most countries they are not a criminal offense. Even jokes about the Jews, or Shoa in particular, about the Gypsies, about any type of minority... none of these are generally speaking penalised by the law.

However, the amount and method of harassment that has been at least strongly implied is. Even with the rather lenient stalker rules we have for example here in my country a person doing this might end up in a world of hurt, if a proper somebody - like some simple, humble, country lawyer - noticed and decided to act upon that.

Dunno how the forum rules look at that.

I have been visiting the forum only rarely, recently, because I have a lot on my plate, right now. And yes, I am going to make jokes about the terrible things that people do, from time to time. I openly intend to continue. After 8 years on the forum I think that I've earned the position where my values are openly out there, my morality as well and when I'm openly transgressing for some reason, it's obvious and never can be taken in a harmful way.

(for what it's worth, my wife does have a history or experience with sexual violence/rape etc. and she'd be on my side here)

If the offended party came in peace, stated their personal problem and asked me not to do it, I would probably oblige
(Diesel has asked me not to use the word "retarded", because he has issues with that, so I've never done it again. I might disagree with the reasoning, because it's arbitrarily taking a denigrative assessment of cognitive abilities (just like "idiotic" or "stupid") and making it into a "slur" or a "hate speech" or whatever - well, he's of that generation, unfortunately - but I listened and accomodated him.)

But I'm not going to appease someone who threatens as a first thing. There's the ignore list for that.

 

[Saapanael]

I've used to read this thread as light-hearted entertainment and here we are in the midst of something Sabaton could write a song about

In the year two thousand twenty-two
Europe devastated by war
In the name of love men and women fought
Dating was no more

 

[Black Abyss Babe]

Real Girls Hate Jealousy! If a girl enjoys you being jealous, then in my opinion you should just stay away if you have feelings for her. This whole man-made trope about females loving guys to be jealous because it shows 'they care' is a bunch of twaddle. Real men show they care all the time by their actions and how they treat a lady. I have never tolerated, and will not, any form of jealousy. Insecurity or lack of self-confidence, however, is different. I'm empathetic to that, as I think most people are, and happy to give reassurance. but jealousy and possessiveness? No thanks. Warning sign for everyone. run away!

Succinctly put, sister

I would add that, in my observation, someone who does something to deliberately provoke a response in another may be insecure themselves and not trying to incite actual jealosy (and while I would suppose this course of action to be generally unwise it probably isn't that sinister either). What you have said about communication and understanding is very much to the point. But if someone does just enjoy playing on the insecurity of others (which amounts to getting a kick out of their own power to manipulate) then yes definitely: run away!

Real jealosy is a very nasty emotion and I don't believe any sensible person would want to be on either side of it.