❤ Dating Advice For MaidenFans Thread ❤

For what it's worth, my first dates were almost exclusively dinner dates, with the rare exception of going to a cinema. I never dated anyone in any other way than serious or exclusive. And I always payed for everything, in fact, it must have been months deep into the dating for the girl to start paying for something as well.

If they had problem with that, they usually had problems with other things as well, so it wouldn't have worked out anyway.
 
Ariana said:
It's beyond me why knowing what would make your partner happy and doing it should be considered as such a big deal.
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You're right, it isn't or rather, it shouldn't be, but I've noticed the following. Again, this is purely anecdotal, no studies, no articles, take it with a grain of salt.

My GF claims I wash the dishes "the wrong way." I look at the dishes and they are just as clean as when she does them. She complains that I take too long (see above post about zoning out and meditating.) She doesn't understand why can't I just do it HER way (aka the RIGHT way.) I usually go to bed before she does and it bothers me when she walks around the house stomping her feet, slamming doors and what seems to be jumping onto the bed making the whole thing shake when she finally decides to go to bed. This morning I brought it up to her and she said, "huh... didn't notice." Yeah, no kidding.

These things have as much to do with upbringing as it does with personal preferences. My GF thinks its just as easy for me to wash the dishes "the right way" as I think it is for her to walk quietly and not slam doors when I'm asleep, yet.... we are both struggling in putting it into practice. We're both trying, but it's easier said than done.
 
Oh, I'm not denying any of this. I would say that compromise is essential, of course, as is accepting the other one as they are, and often it's the smallest things that make it the hardest. But this has nothing to do with what I was originally triggered by - claiming that women just sit around and make demands on a whim.
 
Ariana said:
But this has nothing to do with what I was originally triggered by - claiming that women just sit around and make demands on a whim.
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Definitely agree. Healthy people can articulate why they do something or want something done a certain way fairly well. Most unhealthy people also have their reasons, they just lack the tools to articulate them.

Which takes me back to what started all this.... dates. @Saapanael, while your main goal is to have fun, you also have to screen for things that might lead to bad time on later dates or if it becomes serious. Not necessarily "Red Flags," like, "I keyed my ex's car, because he got a text from a female coworker." Doesn't have to be that extreme, but maybe.... "You like Metal? Oh.... it's just noise to me." That right there means you're not going to concerts together at the least.
 
Ariana said:
You are making all of this sound like a chore. What kind of relationships are you and your friends in?
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Mostly positive long-term ones. And yes, when it stops being about doing your best to please your partner and instead turns into a no-win game of inevitably failing to live up to an expectation of perfection, it does become a chore.
Ariana said:
Success rate, deliver, anticipate, proactively... It sounds like a business project to me.
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Nope, just looking at it in more objective terms. If you think about it emotionally in the moment, each individual expectation may not seem like a big deal; but taking a step back and looking at it in total, it becomes clear that the man in this situation is destined to “fail” repeatedly because it is impossible to divine the exact response desired in every situation.
Ariana said:
Also, what is wrong with actually showing your partner that you know them and listen to their likes or desires? It's what people who care about each other should gladly do.
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There’s absolutely nothing wrong with doing that, and partners should strive to achieve it. What’s wrong is when an expectation of good intentions is instead inflated into an ongoing pass/fail judgment that requires perfect intuition and perfect response to consistently succeed. And the women who behave in this way would almost never acknowledge that that’s what they’re doing.

Most men are simple. Tell us what you want, and if we can give it to you, we will. But apparently that’s not good enough for a lot of women, because if they have to tell you what they want, then you’ve already failed the test. You should already know, and if you don’t, then you obviously don’t care enough. If they have to tell you what they want, then that will ruin everything and they won’t want whatever it is anymore because it won’t “mean” anything.
Ariana said:
What's valid for 99 men or women may not be valid for the one you are dating or want to date, so it doesn't help.
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This I agree with. Each person is different, and any kind of generalization is just something to keep in the back of your mind when considering something specific.
Ariana said:
I'm sorry but I find statements like "Women always..." or "Men are whatever" really annoying.
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Then it’s a good thing that I didn’t do that.

A large subset of women engage in this sort of behavior to some degree. Decades of stand-up comedy would attest to this. Many, many personal anecdotes would support this as well. If you have never intersected with this corner of human behavior, congratulations — but many, many people have, and it’s a real thing.

Women who abuse this behavior can put their partner into a position where they feel like they’re going to be constantly hounded no matter how well they try to behave, and some men in that position wind up saying “fuck it” and just use it as a license to start behaving however they want because they’re going to eat a constant stream of complaints regardless.

Both partners in a long-term relationship need to take a long, hard look at how they treat each other and be willing to acknowledge that behavior they may think is reasonable and normal may not look that way from the other side. And it is not solely the domain of one partner to appease the other — there should be an openness to compromise from both sides.
 
Ariana said:
But this has nothing to do with what I was originally triggered by - claiming that women just sit around and make demands on a whim.
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Latching onto the “sometimes on a whim” comment and turning it into the supposed thesis of what I said is a pretty disingenuous take on my actual words.
 
So to go back to the original comment:

@Saapanael it's perfectly alright for you to say, "How would you like to do the bill? I'm happy to pay for the outing."

If she says yes, and continues to say yes, you know you have a person who wants freebies.
If she says no, and gets upset that you asked, you know more too.

A responsible, mature person will say, "Let's go halves," or "I'll get the tickets, you get the popcorn?" or something similar, or even, "Sure, if you get this one I'll get the next one."
 
With my current person, I paid for the first date and she paid for the second. We’ve been more or less alternating ever since. I think in modern times it’s really unreasonable to expect one person to pay every time and I’ve not dated a woman who wanted to be constantly paid for anyway, I suppose that would be a nonstarter.
 
Saapanael said:
Paying on dates. If I should sit down at a cafe and get a coffee with a girl, I would consider it natural for me to pay for both of us. However, there’s been a few occasions where the girl says that she could’ve bought it herself (coffee, ice cream, whatever). Is that just being polite or do some girls actually prefer to pay for themselves? Maybe they feel like the guy is trying to get something in return. Just to avoid awkward situations, should I assume 100% that it’s my responsibility to pay (which would be my natural instict) or wait for some kind of response from her?

To give a specific example, I should be meeting this girl in a few days to go the movies. I made some kind of joke about buying the tickets and she hinted that she can buy the ticket herself. If we were to get a coffee before or after the cinema, would she want to get it herself again? It’s my task to find out but I wonder if there’s some general know-how for these situations.
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What “girls” do is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. You should not be focused on dating ”girls.“ You are asking an individual to go to a movie. This is about about a specific person in a specific situation.

What would you like to do with her? Extend that offer. Listen to the response. Respect the response. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
 
Not actually going to see a movie because she’s seen that one already. We’re gonna drink some tea and then decide spontaneously.
 
mtmccox said:
Ah yes, myself I also enjoy company with my fellow human beings, I do not prefer robots whatsoever.
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This reminds me of the first time a GF referred to me as her "partner." I told her, "Really?" "What?" "You make us sound like a lesbian couple or like we're in a business venture. I'm fine with boyfriend." "Ok, my bad."

Now though... I don't care and go with the flow and what they're comfortable with.
 
I once called Sophie my younger sister (妹妹) as a joke in one Chinese restaurant when paying the cashier lady. Obviously it was nonsense as she is asian and I am european. She did not take it as a joke and was pissed for days - apparently she thought I was embarassed to tell people we are in relationship.
 
I once bought booze at the supermarket with a mate who was 20 at the time, I was 18 (legal drinking age is 16 for beer, 18 for spirits). I jokingly suggested to the cashier lady she should check his ID, despite it being obvious that he was over 18. She checked me instead. Karma.

Don't know what this has to do with anything, but the above story reminded me of that.
 
Saapanael said:
Paying on dates. If I should sit down at a cafe and get a coffee with a girl, I would consider it natural for me to pay for both of us. However, there’s been a few occasions where the girl says that she could’ve bought it herself (coffee, ice cream, whatever). Is that just being polite or do some girls actually prefer to pay for themselves? Maybe they feel like the guy is trying to get something in return. Just to avoid awkward situations, should I assume 100% that it’s my responsibility to pay (which would be my natural instict) or wait for some kind of response from her?

To give a specific example, I should be meeting this girl in a few days to go the movies. I made some kind of joke about buying the tickets and she hinted that she can buy the ticket herself. If we were to get a coffee before or after the cinema, would she want to get it herself again? It’s my task to find out but I wonder if there’s some general know-how for these situations.
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There's a couple ways to handle it.

1. Just shrug and say, "No big deal. You can get the next one if you want."

2. Or say "I invited you out, so I figured I should be the one who pays."

However, it seems to me, if a person (male or female) says they could have bought it themselves, and really wanted to, they would have.
 
I think the 'who pays' question really depends on what social circles you move in, as well as the individuals involved. There are women who would object to being hoisted onto a pedestal and treated as a delicate little flower who can't possibly pay for a meal, there are women who would fully expect dating etiquette to include being wined and dined and treated like a princess. There are others who don't feel strongly either way but would happily take a free fecking lunch anyday.
 
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