DAWSON 1 YEAR ON

[MrK]

I think Simon's playing some drums and Nicko used to play some drums.

It is what it is innit?

 

[dickinson1978]

Why is it so hard for you to just admit that you PREFER Simon's tempos and/or performances on RFYL to Nicko's tempos and/or performances on FP? It's a perfectly valid opinion.

Why do you NEED to try and prove it objectively?

Even nicko has said that he was really sick in the last year, and he realized that he couldnt continue in the 2nd australian date.

 

[Kurt Barlow]

Conversely, I actually don’t mind Shirley’s sound! I guess the only criticism I can level at it is that there’s not much in the way of dynamics, ala Birch. But sonically, I’m into it. I recognise I’m pretty much alone in this!

 

[Eduardo Cabeza]

See what I wrote above. Stop fighting strawmen and engage with what I'm actually stating. There's overlap between those tours. Take The Trooper or Wasted Years and directly compare them. Nicko had enormous timing issues and fluctuations. Simon very clearly does not. This is not a subjective assessment, this is simply critical analysis of their performances. Which is completely different than claiming "Nicko and Clive are objectively better than Simon".


As I've literally stated multiple timed already it is perfectly valid to prefer one over the other, no matter which direction. But stating their own subjective preference as an objective fact is delusional. I don't know how often I need to repeat this, it's really not a difficult argument. I'm afraid y'all are only glossing over the posts instead of properly reading and parsing what's written.

@Kurt Barlow , and many of us, have pointed out that Simon has "timing issues and fluctuations. This is not a subjective assessment, this is simply critical analysis of their performances".

 

[Yax]

@Kurt Barlow , and many of us, have pointed out that Simon has "timing issues and fluctuations. This is not a subjective assessment, this is simply critical analysis of their performances".

It is a prime example of intersubjectivity. There are no objective critical analysises.

Aspire to objectively assessing the data and others reach the same conclusion based on the same data/whatever = intersubjective consensus.

Might seem nitpicking, but it's rather important to acknowledge that we can't really objectively gauge things (particularly aspects of interconnected things), and not quality of performances. We can try our best though with the data and metrics we use.

 

[Eduardo Cabeza]

There is no reason to expect Dawson to be kept if push back is significant. Blaze Bayley managed 2 albums before someone got thru to Steve.

Sadly, the pressure would never be that strong. I don't think any of the band members want to risk their position with a seismic discussion when Maiden is looking at mega-profitable plans ahead.

Casual fans don't care about drums as much as vocals, so Simon will most probably stay until the end... Maybe it ends up hurting if he doesn't get any better, but it would take time for a big bunch of the audience to say "no more." There are people, like me, who won't go to see them with him behind the drums, unless they bring the most radical left-field setlist —Be Quick or Be Dead, Only the Good Die Young, No Prayer for the Dying... you get the idea— but it would take a couple more tours for this to be really noticeable in ticket sales, and it does not look like the band will be around longer than that.

 

[Eduardo Cabeza]

It is a prime example of intersubjectivity. There are no objective critical analysises.

Aspire to objectively assessing the data and others reach the same conclusion based on the same data/whatever = intersubjective consensus.

Might seem nitpicking, but it's rather important to acknowledge that we can't really objectively gauge things (particularly aspects of interconnected things), and not quality of performances. We can try our best though with the data and metrics we use.

My example was only aimed at showing how double-sided @Vaenyr's argument was.

His criticism was objective; ours wasn't.

 

[MaryPelon]

The likely case is m

joe Lazarus is Harris’ nephew. Joe has grown up with Maiden.

Your arguments would be more convincing if you didn't keep bringing up Joe Lazarus. Then people might think, “That must be a friend of Joe's or his dad,” haha.
And if it really is that you don't like how Maiden sounds anymore, it shouldn't matter.
You don't have to be a Maiden fan who has spent years practicing Maiden songs for the role, just listen to Rush with Anika Nilles.

 

[Terry1958]

Maiden were never going to go on tour with a young lad bouncing about the place. They are all pensioners, it was always going to be someone who fit the personality dynamics above anything else.

I am not surprised by how Iron Maiden went about finding their new drummer. That is how they operate.
But I don't like that retirement age is always given as the reason.
There are so many counterexamples of “old” bands that are clearly in the final phase of their careers. They have still brought in a young member and taken a risk. Rush is just the latest example.
So that is not areasonwhy that is unlikely or impossible.

PS: The new young member could have bounced together with Janick.

 

[Kurt Barlow]

Your arguments would be more convincing if you didn't keep bringing up Joe Lazarus. Then people might think, “That must be a friend of Joe's or his dad,” haha.
And if it really is that you don't like how Maiden sounds anymore, it shouldn't matter.
You don't have to be a Maiden fan who has spent years practicing Maiden songs for the role, just listen to Rush with Anika Nilles.

He was on their doorstep. Had been groomed for the gig for many years.

But as we’ve established, Iron Maiden could’ve picked the very best of the best. For us, the fans. We deserve Simon Dawson, apparently.

 

[Kurt Barlow]

He was on their doorstep. Had been groomed for the gig for many years.

But as we’ve established, Iron Maiden could’ve picked the very best of the best. For us, the fans. We deserve Simon Dawson, apparently.

Never met him. I’m a Maiden fan, I’ve been following him for years. Check the comments on his videos, and you’ll see a similar demographic.

 

[Vaenyr]

I am not taking the piss.

Until we have a statistically sound analysis of a random sample across both tours to compare, you CANNOT unequivocally state that Nicko's tempos fluctuated more than Simon's, or that his performances were objectively inferior.

Cherrypicking some examples of Adrian getting pissed off when Nicko fucked up in 23-24, alongside some examples of Simon NOT fucking up in 25-26, is not enough to conclude this.

And even if it is proven to be true, tempo is NOT the only criteria by which a performance can be judged, so all you'll have proven is that Nicko's tempos fluctuated more. Not that his performances are "objectively worse".

I AGREE with you it's ridiculous to say that any musician is objectively worse than any other. But it is ALSO ridiculous to say that any given performance is objectively worse than any other.

As I said, unlike some other "objective facts" thrown around the last couple of days, I can substantiate my claims once I'm back on my computer

Why is it so hard for you to just admit that you PREFER Simon's tempos and/or performances on RFYL to Nicko's tempos and/or performances on FP? It's a perfectly valid opinion.

I never said that I prefer Simon's tempos or performances. I'm stating the blindingly obvious, that he's more consistent than Nicko was during TFP. This isn't controversial and it is childish to reguse such a simple fact.

Why do you NEED to try and prove it
objectively?

I don't "need" to prove anything. I'm not the one who tried passing off their subjective experience as universal truth and "fact". The one thing that I mentioned, is something that is easily objectively quantifiable.

@Kurt Barlow , and many of us, have pointed out that Simon has "timing issues and fluctuations. This is not a subjective assessment, this is simply critical analysis of their performances".

As does every other member of Maiden. We were talking about the amount of deviation. Simon is nowhere close in fluctuation as Nicko was on TFP. Hell, Nicko has always been wildly inconsistent and fluctuated even in the studio (listen to The Wicker Man with a metronome for a fun time).

I never claimed Simon has no fluctuations. I'm saying that he's more consistent than Nicko.

My example was only aimed at showing how double-sided @Vaenyr's argument was.

His criticism was objective; ours wasn't.

No, that's a misreading of the argument and I can't believe that I have to type it out once again, despite it being so simple:

Comparing the consistency in tempos between two drummers is something that can be accurately measured with actual numbers. We can run statistics and measure who deviates more. That is quite literally objective.

On the other hand, saying "Simon is objectively a worse drummer than Nicko and Clive" just because Kurt doesn't like Simon and made an account purely devoted to hating on Simon, is simply nonsensical. He can subjectively prefer one or the other. He is allowed to hate Simon. But making such a generalization is simply ludicrous.

Like, do you genuinely, honestly, not see the difference between those situations? Forget for a second who posted what. One is a statement with specific criteria (two drummers playing the same song and being judged on their adherence to the song's tempo) and the other is a subjective comparison between artists being passed as "fact". Seriously, do you really not see the difference?

Let's see how many times I have to repeat this until everyone finally gets it.