Your Maiden blasphemy

harrisdevot said:
You should send this to Steve. He is said to pay a visit to the official forum once in a while. No doubt he will ask your advice for his future epics.
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I'm sorry I offended your feelings.

(just kidding, I don't give a fuck)

By the way, the idea of hiring a competent arranger isn't bad:



 
Murder of Rue Morgue said:
I'm sorry I offended your feelings.

(just kidding, I don't give a fuck)

By the way, the idea of hiring a competent arranger isn't bad:



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I mean, yes these songs could have been trimmed a bit but these remixes are quite bad. Adding even more Casio synth sounds is not how you improve these songs.

And throwing in stock battle samples over the guitar solos in DOTC is just plain shit.

Never mind that it sounds like a low quality mp3 file run through YouTubes compression.
 
I mean, Kevin Shirley is a competent producer. He's made a lot of albums that are well regarded.

He doesn't suck - he's an employee of the band doing exactly what the band wants him to do. He's not producing the albums towards your ear, or my ear, but towards Steve's ear. If Steve likes it, it's good. So blame Steve, not Caveman, because he doesn't get to make these choices.
 
Love or Hate how Maiden albums are arranged or produced, but that's how they want them. I always find it both presumptuous and just plain wrong to go "oh no, this is how it should have sounded."

That said, I also recognize everyone has their own opinion.
 
chaosapiant said:
Love or Hate how Maiden albums are arranged or produced, but that's how they want them. I always find it both presumptuous and just plain wrong to go "oh no, this is how it should have sounded."

That said, I also recognize everyone has their own opinion.
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Personally, I usually don't listen to bands that I constantly have issues with how their songs are produced, and what arrangements their main song writer favours.
 
LooseCannon said:
I mean, Kevin Shirley is a competent producer. He's made a lot of albums that are well regarded.

He doesn't suck - he's an employee of the band doing exactly what the band wants him to do. He's not producing the albums towards your ear, or my ear, but towards Steve's ear. If Steve likes it, it's good. So blame Steve, not Caveman, because he doesn't get to make these choices.
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Ah, the final front-ear, the final front-ear…
 
chaosapiant said:
Love or Hate how Maiden albums are arranged or produced, but that's how they want them. I always find it both presumptuous and just plain wrong to go "oh no, this is how it should have sounded."

That said, I also recognize everyone has their own opinion.
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I agree. I disagree with some of their choices and think they have been suffering from a lack of self-editing for quite some time, but I always have the choice to listen to something else.
 
Oh boy, time for some blasphemy. I think I'll just go chronologically:

Iron Maiden and Killers are fine albums, but they're not at all what I want out of Maiden, so they're easily my least favorite albums in their catalogue.

Gangland is a great song and deserved to be on the album. Total Eclipse is one of the worst songs they've ever written, despite some great parts and an interesting topic.

Quest For Fire has one of the best instrumental sections of the 80's albums and I adore the guitar sound there and the solos.
Sun And Steel sucks. To Tame A Land is an absolute bore, with even worse lyrics. Funny that ATG gets criticized widely, but TTAL is hardly mentioned.

The atmosperic part of Rime is quite boring and makes me like the song a lot less than I otherwise would. Other songs (SSOASS for example) had a much better take on atmospheric quiet sections.

The only good parts of Sea Of Madness are solo and the instrumental sections. The main riff is aggressively bad. SIASL is an average song with a fantastic song.

Bruce's best vocal performance in the 80's was on Piece Of Mind. I'm really not a big fan of his live performances during the 80's compared to his golden era of 1995 - 2008. Beast Over Hammersmith for example (but also Live After Death) show that while his vocal range is insane, he didn't quite have as much control yet and routinely overshot the correct pitches. Also, note to Bruce and Steve: Just because Bruce can hit some notes doesn't mean that he should.

NPFTD is underrated. My biggest issues are the lyrics to Tailgunner specifically, the album cover being ugly and there not being a proper epic on the album. The intro to The Assassin is all kinds of awesome.

FOTD is a top 5 album, with Childhood's End being the best song on the album. As someone who grew up in Dortmund, where football and hooligans have always been a part of my life (despite me not liking either lol) I've always loved Weekend Warrior. That said, The Apparition sucks.

The X Factor has great ideas but deserved a better production, a few more takes for better vocal performances and a better cover. The puppet is interesting but it's too edgy for edginess' sake.

Virtual XI is my favorite album and Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger my favorite Maiden song of all time. I'm not saying they are the best, far from it. But at this point it's impossible to separate the huge amounts of nostalgia I have for this release and I don't think anything will ever top this for me (AMOLAD and SSOASS being my number 2 and 3 respectively, if anyone's curious). From a songwriting perspective VXI is BNW's twin, not surprising since the latter features 4 songs written during the former's time. I honestly believe, if it had BNW's line up and production (and maybe a shorter TAATG, even though I love it to pieces) it would be highly regarded. Honestly, it's strange to me how people can hate this one but adore BNW, when they're both quite similar.

TTLBLAH has a great first half but the second half is quite boring to me, I usually skip that part. I used to love The Nomad specifically because of the middle part. Since finding out that it was plagiarized I mostly skip the song.

DOD is a great album and it took me years to realize that I like it more than BNW. Wildest Dreams is weak, with an awesome solo and post solo section. Rainmaker and No More Lies are fantastic (the latter is amazing live). Montsegur had great potential but all the happy, almost nursery rhymes sounding melodies absolutely ruin this song for me. DOD is obviously awesome.
Gates Of Tomorrow is a straight 10/10. Has great vocal harmonies and I love the melodies and the modul mixture throughout the song.
The New Frontier is okay, Paschendale is overrated as all hell with the best part being the tapping intro. FITS and AOI (despite the former's uninspired double bass drumming and the latter's horrendous lyrics) are great songs. Journeyman is close to a 10, but I'm not a fan of the chorus and it's in a far too shouty range of Bruce's vocals, making it annoying to listen to.

TFF is my third least favorite album. I love the title track (without Satellite 15), Starblind, The Talisman and WTWWB. I keep forgetting about The Alchemist, but when I listen to it I enjoy it a lot. The rest of the album is unfortunately quite weak. El Dorado is decent, but I've never been a fan of rock'n'roll-y songs, just not my style. MOM (lol) is half-baked and feels superfluous after AMOLAD. Coming Home has great verses, but I don't enjoy the rest of the song. Never liked the main riff of IOA, which spans a huge part of the song, and I also don't like the jam session in the middle. TMWWBK is clearly not finished and I hate the "singing solo" part.

SOL is one of the worst songs they've written and I despise it with a passion. TRATB on the other hand, specifically everything including and after the "The red and the black" is pure Maiden magic and I adore it. When The River Runs Deep is severely underrated. The opening vocal melody is cringeworthy, but the rest of the song is badass.

Senjutsu is unfortunately one of the weakest title tracks. Great chorus and some great ideas, but far too monotonous for its length. LIALW is underrated and has some amazing melodies. Very disappointed with DOTC, easily the weakest song on the album.

Finally, the production of modern Maiden albums has been criticized wildly and I agree with those criticisms, so no blasphemy there. I'm used to the fact, that a band that used to deliver amazingly polished albums like SSOASS, won't ever deliver something sounding as tight and polished as that album. My bigger issue is how reckless and careless the recording process has become. There are times where literal mistakes and errors are left in the final product and it pains me every time I hear those. Also, I can't stand the "live"-way of recording the recent albums and how jam session-y they sound at times. Of course everything's subjective, but there's too much rumble and noise going on for my likes, far too loose playing.

Wall of text done, I'll go repent :D
Bonus blasphemy: Skunkworks is Bruce's best solo album!
 
Vaenyr said:
Oh boy, time for some blasphemy. I think I'll just go chronologically:

Iron Maiden and Killers are fine albums, but they're not at all what I want out of Maiden, so they're easily my least favorite albums in their catalogue.

Gangland is a great song and deserved to be on the album. Total Eclipse is one of the worst songs they've ever written, despite some great parts and an interesting topic.

Quest For Fire has one of the best instrumental sections of the 80's albums and I adore the guitar sound there and the solos.
Sun And Steel sucks. To Tame A Land is an absolute bore, with even worse lyrics. Funny that ATG gets criticized widely, but TTAL is hardly mentioned.

The atmosperic part of Rime is quite boring and makes me like the song a lot less than I otherwise would. Other songs (SSOASS for example) had a much better take on atmospheric quiet sections.

The only good parts of Sea Of Madness are solo and the instrumental sections. The main riff is aggressively bad. SIASL is an average song with a fantastic song.

Bruce's best vocal performance in the 80's was on Piece Of Mind. I'm really not a big fan of his live performances during the 80's compared to his golden era of 1995 - 2008. Beast Over Hammersmith for example (but also Live After Death) show that while his vocal range is insane, he didn't quite have as much control yet and routinely overshot the correct pitches. Also, note to Bruce and Steve: Just because Bruce can hit some notes doesn't mean that he should.

NPFTD is underrated. My biggest issues are the lyrics to Tailgunner specifically, the album cover being ugly and there not being a proper epic on the album. The intro to The Assassin is all kinds of awesome.

FOTD is a top 5 album, with Childhood's End being the best song on the album. As someone who grew up in Dortmund, where football and hooligans have always been a part of my life (despite me not liking either lol) I've always loved Weekend Warrior. That said, The Apparition sucks.

The X Factor has great ideas but deserved a better production, a few more takes for better vocal performances and a better cover. The puppet is interesting but it's too edgy for edginess' sake.

Virtual XI is my favorite album and Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger my favorite Maiden song of all time. I'm not saying they are the best, far from it. But at this point it's impossible to separate the huge amounts of nostalgia I have for this release and I don't think anything will ever top this for me (AMOLAD and SSOASS being my number 2 and 3 respectively, if anyone's curious). From a songwriting perspective VXI is BNW's twin, not surprising since the latter features 4 songs written during the former's time. I honestly believe, if it had BNW's line up and production (and maybe a shorter TAATG, even though I love it to pieces) it would be highly regarded. Honestly, it's strange to me how people can hate this one but adore BNW, when they're both quite similar.

TTLBLAH has a great first half but the second half is quite boring to me, I usually skip that part. I used to love The Nomad specifically because of the middle part. Since finding out that it was plagiarized I mostly skip the song.

DOD is a great album and it took me years to realize that I like it more than BNW. Wildest Dreams is weak, with an awesome solo and post solo section. Rainmaker and No More Lies are fantastic (the latter is amazing live). Montsegur had great potential but all the happy, almost nursery rhymes sounding melodies absolutely ruin this song for me. DOD is obviously awesome.
Gates Of Tomorrow is a straight 10/10. Has great vocal harmonies and I love the melodies and the modul mixture throughout the song.
The New Frontier is okay, Paschendale is overrated as all hell with the best part being the tapping intro. FITS and AOI (despite the former's uninspired double bass drumming and the latter's horrendous lyrics) are great songs. Journeyman is close to a 10, but I'm not a fan of the chorus and it's in a far too shouty range of Bruce's vocals, making it annoying to listen to.

TFF is my third least favorite album. I love the title track (without Satellite 15), Starblind, The Talisman and WTWWB. I keep forgetting about The Alchemist, but when I listen to it I enjoy it a lot. The rest of the album is unfortunately quite weak. El Dorado is decent, but I've never been a fan of rock'n'roll-y songs, just not my style. MOM (lol) is half-baked and feels superfluous after AMOLAD. Coming Home has great verses, but I don't enjoy the rest of the song. Never liked the main riff of IOA, which spans a huge part of the song, and I also don't like the jam session in the middle. TMWWBK is clearly not finished and I hate the "singing solo" part.

SOL is one of the worst songs they've written and I despise it with a passion. TRATB on the other hand, specifically everything including and after the "The red and the black" is pure Maiden magic and I adore it. When The River Runs Deep is severely underrated. The opening vocal melody is cringeworthy, but the rest of the song is badass.

Senjutsu is unfortunately one of the weakest title tracks. Great chorus and some great ideas, but far too monotonous for its length. LIALW is underrated and has some amazing melodies. Very disappointed with DOTC, easily the weakest song on the album.

Finally, the production of modern Maiden albums has been criticized wildly and I agree with those criticisms, so no blasphemy there. I'm used to the fact, that a band that used to deliver amazingly polished albums like SSOASS, won't ever deliver something sounding as tight and polished as that album. My bigger issue is how reckless and careless the recording process has become. There are times where literal mistakes and errors are left in the final product and it pains me every time I hear those. Also, I can't stand the "live"-way of recording the recent albums and how jam session-y they sound at times. Of course everything's subjective, but there's too much rumble and noise going on for my likes, far too loose playing.
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The debut is an essential album for the sound of Maiden. Classic.

I agree about Gangland but not about Total Eclipse.

The instrumental section of Quest For Fire is pure Maiden gold! The chorus of Sun And Steel is a bit ''too happy'' I guess, but the repetition bothers me more, especially in such a short song. I'm not a big fan of To Tame A Land, but the instrumental section is great. Maybe the lyrics are the reason why this song hasn't been performed live since 1983?

The atmospheric part in Rime is really needed for the song (like for SSOASS). It could have been shorter though.

Sea Of Madness is one of Maiden's heaviest songs in the 80's, so the riff need to be aggressive. SIASL is not your usual catchy Maiden song. The solo is the highlight.

Bruce's best vocals on an 80's album is Powerslave or TNOTB imo.

I agree about that NPFTD is an underrated album with a boring cover. I miss an epic too (the last song should have been 7 minutes long), but at the same time it's a unique album with the sound and the length of the songs. The intro of The Assassin is great, underrated song.

FOTD is one of my favorite albums. Childhood's End is a gem, Weekend Warrior is a cool song and I agree about The Apparition (although the solos are very good).

The production of TXF album is perfect imo. The album is full of great ideas and is the blueprint for the Reunion era songs of the band. The cover should have been a drawing.

I love VXI album. The melodies in the album make you feel nostalgic. I like Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger a lot. VXI is to BNW what Judas Priest's Ram It Down is to Painkiller.

The second half of The Thin Line Between Love And Hate is so unique. The show of Bruce and Dave! The only problem in the BNW album is the instrumental section of The Nomad imo.

DOD is a great and underrated album. Wildest Dreams is a good song, but by Maiden's standards it's too easy. The solo and the instrumental section are great. Rainmaker, No More Lies, DOD, Paschendale and Journeyman are classics imo. Face In The Sand too. Montségur is a typical strong Maiden song, Gates Of Tomorrow is underrated, I like it a lot too and New Frontier is an energetic very good Maiden rocker. I only like the melodies and Dave's wild solo in AOI.

The Final Frontier is a very good song. The chorus of Mother Of Mercy should have been different (and easier for Bruce) and the intro is too long for a 5 minutes long song. The rest of the song is good. Coming Home also has a great chorus and solos. I'm also not a big fan of the jam session in IOA. TMWWBK is a finished song, the solo is unique but not that good.

I don't know why some fans don't like Speed Of Light, fast Maiden rocker with anthemic chorus, great solos and instrumental section. The instrumental section in TRATB is pure Maiden magic indeed. I agree that WTRRD is an underrated song - my only ''problem'' is the slow chorus, but the riff, the tempo, the melodies and the 3 brutal solos are top-notch.

I agree about LIALW but not about Senjutsu and especially for DOTC. All of Steve's songs in this album are amazing.


I like the production of the modern Maiden albums, but at the same time I wonder how they would sound with a modern polished production.
 
I think Steve's lyrics have been pretty clunky these past 30 years. A lot of them don't make grammatical sense. Kinda bothers me, but I always pay more attention to the music anyway.
 
One thing I loved about Senjutsu is the amount of vocal lines that are in Bruce's lower registers. For every difficult TWOTW you've got things like LIALW or DOTC with mostly middle register vocal lines, where Bruce sounds absolutely fantastic. He still can hit the high notes, but to me it doesn't sound that great a lot of the time. See the "Where the fools are lying and the meek are crying"-section of The Great Unknown for example.
Kalata said:
The atmospheric part in Rime is really needed for the song (like for SSOASS). It could have been shorter though.

Sea Of Madness is one of Maiden's heaviest songs in the 80's, so the riff need to be aggressive. SIASL is not your usual catchy Maiden song. The solo is the highlight.

I don't know why some fans don't like Speed Of Light, fast Maiden rocker with anthemic chorus, great solos and instrumental section.
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My issue with Rime's middle section isn't the existence of an atmospheric section, I just don't enjoy the chords used.

SOM has an aggressive riff, but the vocal melodies, especially the ones for the verse, are very clunky and weird in my opinion.

My issue with Speed Of Light is that it's another of those rock'n'roll type songs that I usually don't enjoy. The key changes feel arbitrary and random and I dislike the verses because of that. The chorus is interesting, but to me it feels too strained and too high.

Mega said:
I think Steve's lyrics have been pretty clunky these past 30 years. A lot of them don't make grammatical sense. Kinda bothers me, but I always pay more attention to the music anyway.
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Definitely. Take a look at Hell On Earth. It's a beloved song, but the first verse in particular is all kinds of weird. He has said before that for him the melody is more important than the lyrics, which I mostly agree with as well. There are times where you can really hear that philosophy though. Take the infamous "Now we need to know the truth now" lyric from The Man Of Sorrows. He could've easily swapped the first "now" with a bunch of other words, but kept the clunky "now"'s twice in the same line.
 
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Steve is always been a clunky lyric writer. It’s just more noticeable now because he always writes to match the melody, and the melodies are more complex than they used to be. He does a ton of adding extra words to match a beat, when some words could just be accented or emphasized differently.

It’s something Bruce has mastered. Look how complex Starblind is, yet his lyrics are incredible. Bruce knows how to fold and emphasize certain words to make it work. Steve just adds articles everywhere.
 
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