Your Maiden blasphemy

Ascendingthethrone

Educated Fool
Well, I figure I'll add this too and I really hate saying it but now that riff has, I don't feel so bad.

Number Of The Beast is the most overrated Maiden album on the planet. Every time I see a top metal album list it's right there. Maybe it's the over exposure in the live shows because NOTB and HBTN are mandatory. I don't know. It's my least favorite of the 80's Bruce albums.
It is a far superior album to Powerslave. I believe that album to vastly overrated in the IM and metal community.
 

koponto

Invader
TNOTB, Piece or Powerslave have never been anywhere near my top Maiden albums, and I find them all overrated. This is a constant fighting-topic with my friends that are into Maiden.
Don't get me wrong, I like all of the albums, but none of those 3 come even close to The X Factor, for example.
 

Randalf

Ancient Mariner
I think both The Number of the Beast and Powerslave are at the edge of being almost underrated for being overrated. I think they're not quite as consistent or exciting in terms of album flow and whatnot as, say, Seventh Son or even Somewhere in Time which also broadened their sound palette a lot with synths and epic soundscapes, but the outrageous, tight and intense performances and some of their career highlight songs on TNOTB & Powerslave really make them quite amazing records nonetheless. The epic soundscapes and consistency of some of the following records just makes them seem retrospectively a bit weaker.

So yeah, in a way, both of those albums are "overrated" but then again, there's no denying their huge significance. While both of them, especially Powerslave, are far from being among my favourite Maiden albums, I think the seamless nature of Seventh Son and some of the more adventurous and atmospheric subsequent albums have made them look, ironically enough, "worse" than they actually are.

But yes, I can see where the "overrated" thing comes from. I'm always slightly triggered when some instances annunce the brilliance of the mentioned two albums just because of their status and overall image and completely ignore how well the rest of their heyday (or even later!) records compare to them - and even manage to surpass!
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
I've said this elsewhere but I'll repeat it here: The Number of the Beast is the greatest metal album ever written. It is NOT the best Iron Maiden album. By a long shot.
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
So there are a bunch of better Maiden albums that you wouldn’t classify as being metal, then…?
Not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, to me, Number of the Beast is a landmark album in metal. Maiden is still in the same genre, but they also transcended metal a long time ago. It's also intentionally a paradoxical statement.
 
I've had this essay written in my head for a while and made an account to put this down onto paper. It's just an opinion so I'm not getting up on a soapbox and preaching these as objective facts.

I'm not big on 2000s Maiden and I think Senjutsu encapsulates everything that's been wrong with 2000s Maiden minus the redeeming qualities of previous albums. I've always found something to like about each album since Brave New World, as it's still Maiden and they're still fantastic, but I don't like anything off of Senjutsu at all. I think it's an overrated turd and, if it weren't Maiden, I doubt anyone would give it a second glance.

2000s Maiden is plagued by:

1. Bad production. I'm not a huge stickler about production the way some other people are, but when the actual physical sound of the album is mangled I take issue with it. It's always so muddy, overly loud and compressed, and actually gives me a headache listening to it. Perhaps part of the muddy sound is tracking 3 guitars. I miss the crisp, pristine production of Martin Birch. This is an issue for 2000s rock/metal in general though, not just Maiden.

2. Overwrought, uninspired songwriting. I don't think Maiden has a knack for writing long songs anymore. So many songs are just a collection of unmemorable riffs haphazardly slapped together. They're also often all derived from the same scale or key so there's no modulation or contrast, giving everything a homogenous feel that doesn't go anywhere. It lacks compositional refinement and cohesive structuring or development of ideas. Empire of the Clouds is bloated and pretentious. There's no reason that song should be 20 minutes long. Hell on Earth and the Death of the Celts are impossibly boring. The Thin Line Between Love and Hate is cringeworthy for a number of reasons.

3. Bruce doesn't sound very good. This isn't really his fault due to age and cancer, and it's impressive how good he sounds in spite of the shitty circumstances outside of his control. But he sounds like sandpaper to my ears now. I also don't think the way the vocals are mixed are doing him any favors either. The harmonized guitar leads with Bruce's voice sound really bad and never mesh. His technique is still sound and he can hit a lot of really beautiful notes, but I think at this point his voice is just physically shot.

4. Stylistic choices. Maiden has always been cheesy, so you can't fault them for being that way because they were the inventors of those clichés. But there's so much stuff on the 2000s albums that grind my gears. Cheesy synths, saccharine, layered "woah oh oh" choruses (I do love the chorus of Red and The Black though, ironically). Choruses often feel forced or unmemorable.

5. Some songs are just straight up duds. This is obviously very subjective, but...Wildest Dreams? New Frontier? Different World? Man of Sorrows? Etc. I get not every song's going to be a home run, but some are just inexcusably bad.

What do you all think? Should I be tarred and feathered or are these valid criticisms?
 

Patrick92

Educated Fool
I've had this essay written in my head for a while and made an account to put this down onto paper. It's just an opinion so I'm not getting up on a soapbox and preaching these as objective facts.

I'm not big on 2000s Maiden and I think Senjutsu encapsulates everything that's been wrong with 2000s Maiden minus the redeeming qualities of previous albums. I've always found something to like about each album since Brave New World, as it's still Maiden and they're still fantastic, but I don't like anything off of Senjutsu at all. I think it's an overrated turd and, if it weren't Maiden, I doubt anyone would give it a second glance.

2000s Maiden is plagued by:

1. Bad production. I'm not a huge stickler about production the way some other people are, but when the actual physical sound of the album is mangled I take issue with it. It's always so muddy, overly loud and compressed, and actually gives me a headache listening to it. Perhaps part of the muddy sound is tracking 3 guitars. I miss the crisp, pristine production of Martin Birch. This is an issue for 2000s rock/metal in general though, not just Maiden.

2. Overwrought, uninspired songwriting. I don't think Maiden has a knack for writing long songs anymore. So many songs are just a collection of unmemorable riffs haphazardly slapped together. They're also often all derived from the same scale or key so there's no modulation or contrast, giving everything a homogenous feel that doesn't go anywhere. It lacks compositional refinement and cohesive structuring or development of ideas. Empire of the Clouds is bloated and pretentious. There's no reason that song should be 20 minutes long. Hell on Earth and the Death of the Celts are impossibly boring. The Thin Line Between Love and Hate is cringeworthy for a number of reasons.

3. Bruce doesn't sound very good. This isn't really his fault due to age and cancer, and it's impressive how good he sounds in spite of the shitty circumstances outside of his control. But he sounds like sandpaper to my ears now. I also don't think the way the vocals are mixed are doing him any favors either. The harmonized guitar leads with Bruce's voice sound really bad and never mesh. His technique is still sound and he can hit a lot of really beautiful notes, but I think at this point his voice is just physically shot.

4. Stylistic choices. Maiden has always been cheesy, so you can't fault them for being that way because they were the inventors of those clichés. But there's so much stuff on the 2000s albums that grind my gears. Cheesy synths, saccharine, layered "woah oh oh" choruses (I do love the chorus of Red and The Black though, ironically). Choruses often feel forced or unmemorable.

5. Some songs are just straight up duds. This is obviously very subjective, but...Wildest Dreams? New Frontier? Different World? Man of Sorrows? Etc. I get not every song's going to be a home run, but some are just inexcusably bad.

What do you all think? Should I be tarred and feathered or are these valid criticisms?
I think its a matter of taste and opinion. And I find yours wrong lol But who am I to judge? People seem to love Iron Maiden and Killers but I cant get into them. I find them dull, childish, repetitive and boring. All sounds kinda the same to me and I dont feel anything when I listen to those songs. Or, I feel annoyed. Becasue of Pauls horrible voice. I cant stand him. People talk about the brilliance of like Remember Tomorrow and im like lol yuck who can stand that idiot singning.

2000's Maiden is amazing imo and I love it. Some filler tracks here and there but whatever. The Greater Good of God or Dance of Death or Writing On the Wall to name a few is as good as the best Maiden has ever done.
 
I think its a matter of taste and opinion. And I find yours wrong lol But who am I to judge? People seem to love Iron Maiden and Killers but I cant get into them. I find them dull, childish, repetitive and boring. All sounds kinda the same to me and I dont feel anything when I listen to those songs. Or, I feel annoyed. Becasue of Pauls horrible voice. I cant stand him. People talk about the brilliance of like Remember Tomorrow and im like lol yuck who can stand that idiot singning.

2000's Maiden is amazing imo and I love it. Some filler tracks here and there but whatever. The Greater Good of God or Dance of Death or Writing On the Wall to name a few is as good as the best Maiden has ever done.
I love the old punk sound of the debut and Killers and think Paul's really underrated. Killers has some meh spots though. They were still kinda raw back then.

I actually agree that some of Maiden's best material is from the 2000s and is on par with their classic stuff. It's just way too inconsistent for me. Even when I don't dislike a song and there's nothing wrong with it, I don't find it particularly inspiring either. That's The Final Frontier in a nutshell for me.
 

Patrick92

Educated Fool
I love the old punk sound of the debut and Killers and think Paul's really underrated. Killers has some meh spots though. They were still kinda raw back then.

I actually agree that some of Maiden's best material is from the 2000s and is on par with their classic stuff. It's just way too inconsistent for me. Even when I don't dislike a song and there's nothing wrong with it, I don't find it particularly inspiring either. That's The Final Frontier in a nutshell for me.
To each his own. But yeah, its taste. Thats all its about. I never liked punk. And im not a fan of that raw sound. And yeah, Paul to me is a rough listen. I prefer a more mature and growing sound

I can agree that the 2000's albums are more inconsistent. Personally I really dig The Final Frontier though. But I to think the 2000's albums are a bit bloated here and there and would have benefited from dropping a track or two.
 

Edington

Let's Get Volatile
Bad production. I'm not a huge stickler about production the way some other people are, but when the actual physical sound of the album is mangled I take issue with it. It's always so muddy, overly loud and compressed, and actually gives me a headache listening to it. Perhaps part of the muddy sound is tracking 3 guitars. I miss the crisp, pristine production of Martin Birch. This is an issue for 2000s rock/metal in general though, not just Maiden.

This is becoming such a common complaint that it's hard to think of it as a blasphemy anymore. :lol:

Having recently been subjected to nearly five hours of nu-metal and metalcore courtesy of a long drive with a workmate who likes that music (I'm with you there, that was headache inducing!), I find Maiden's production to be a breath of fresh air. Sure it's not perfect, but it sounds much more organic.

Bruce doesn't sound very good. This isn't really his fault due to age and cancer, and it's impressive how good he sounds in spite of the shitty circumstances outside of his control. But he sounds like sandpaper to my ears now.
His technique is still sound and he can hit a lot of really beautiful notes, but I think at this point his voice is just physically shot.

I won't argue here, despite my disagreements, but your comments seem a little contradictory. Bruce doesn't sound good, but he still sounds good, he has a strong technique and hits beautiful notes, but his voice is shot...?
 
This is becoming such a common complaint that it's hard to think of it as a blasphemy anymore. :lol:

Having recently been subjected to nearly five hours of nu-metal and metalcore courtesy of a long drive with a workmate who likes that music (I'm with you there, that was headache inducing!), I find Maiden's production to be a breath of fresh air. Sure it's not perfect, but it sounds much more organic.




I won't argue here, despite my disagreements, but your comments seem a little contradictory. Bruce doesn't sound good, but he still sounds good, he has a strong technique and hits beautiful notes, but his voice is shot...?
Yeah that does seem contradictory the way I put it. What I meant was that while he can demonstrate that he's still a great singer, age and cancer has still caught up to him and he doesn't sound as good as he used to, to me. A lot of others like his current voice and timbral change, I find it a bit grating.
 
I don't like Maiden's new artist Hervé Monjeaud. I also don't like Mark Wilkinson's Eddie art for Senjitsu. I just can't relate to his Eddie's compared to anything by Derek and to a lesser extent Mark Wilkinson. I suppose 'Empire of the Clouds' is pretty good though. None of the album covers, single cover, and live album covers are not near as great as the 80's and early 90's stuff.
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
I don't like Maiden's new artist Hervé Monjeaud. I also don't like Mark Wilkinson's Eddie art for Senjitsu. I just can't relate to his Eddie's compared to anything by Derek and to a lesser extent Mark Wilkinson. I suppose 'Empire of the Clouds' is pretty good though. None of the album covers, single cover, and live album covers are not near as great as the 80's and early 90's stuff.
Weird. I prefer Wilkinson's stuff to Grant's, and if if you showed me the Book of Souls cover and told me it was actually Derek Riggs, I'd have believed it. Wilkinson's Eddie is the the most "Eddie" Eddie we've had since Riggs. At least Book of Souls is. Senjutsu is a little more "out there" similar to Grant's cover for The Final Frontier.
 
I'm just not mad about the 'Senjitsu' Eddie. I do however love Mark Wilkinson's Eddie bat, The Wicker Man, Out of the Silent Planet, and the alternate art for 'Book of Soul's, where Eddie is holding a heart.
 
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