karljant
Ancient Mariner
Seems like that makes us two delusional dudes Collin. Nowdays it seems that writting a copy of a well known riff adding 2 notes in the last compass is not "too close" or a "rip off"... it's merely a "variant".
Your Maiden blasphemy
- Thread starter mckindog
- Start date
karljant
Ancient Mariner
It's not like the tab is pratically the same... OH WAIT!
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Here’s what I didn’t say:
“Wicker Man” and “Running Wild” aren’t similar at all.
Here’s what i did say / will say now:
1. They are similar with the first bit being the same.
2. Wicker Man has the better riff.
3. Wicker Man’s is a variant of Running Wild’s riff.
4. Is it a direct rip-off, a coincidence, or a tribute to Priest? I wouldn’t know.
“Wicker Man” and “Running Wild” aren’t similar at all.
Here’s what i did say / will say now:
1. They are similar with the first bit being the same.
2. Wicker Man has the better riff.
3. Wicker Man’s is a variant of Running Wild’s riff.
4. Is it a direct rip-off, a coincidence, or a tribute to Priest? I wouldn’t know.
Collin
Chasing Ponce De Leon's Phantoms
Get a guitar and learn it. 90% of it is the same.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Did you not read the post?
Just to add a thought here, it's possible that the Maiden boys don't actually know the Priest song and it's neither a rip-off or a tribute at all. We sometimes assume too much that the artists we listen to are as familiar with each other as we are.
And yes, it's pretty much the same riff. I noticed it the instance I first heard the Priest track.
And yes, it's pretty much the same riff. I noticed it the instance I first heard the Priest track.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Highly unlikely that they haven't heard it, imo. NWOBHM came right after Priest, and Maiden were a supporting band for Priest in the early days. Not like it's some obscure song, it's on Killing Machine.
The similarity between the riffs isn't all that noteworthy as far as the fingering hand is concerned, they're as simple and predictable as a pattern can get, that type of overlap happens all the time in heavy metal songs. The eye-catching part is the rhythm with which these similar patterns are played as they're pretty much identical, including the use of palm muting.
Yes, maybe Adrian or Bruce or whoever may have heard it at one point, but that doesn't mean they remembered it or it was on their mind in 2000 when Wicker Man was written. Running Wild isn't an obscure track, but it's also hardly top tier, and Priest were not much of an influence on Maiden to begin with. I'm not saying it's impossible that they knew the track or thought of it, I'm just saying it's possible that they didn't.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
It's one of those riffs that's so simple in composition that, although Adrian has almost certainly heard the track before, he probably never had any clue he was channeling it while writing Wicker Man.
Not saying that excuses it, but it's an every day occurrence in songwriting (especially with such a simplistic chord progression).
Not saying that excuses it, but it's an every day occurrence in songwriting (especially with such a simplistic chord progression).
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
If two artists make a very similar piece of art, independently and without knowledge of the other and at different times, did one copy the other? I don’t believe so. So the question in regards to Maiden’s “plagiarism” is did they do it knowingly? And that’s hard to prove. So I ignore it.
Collin
Chasing Ponce De Leon's Phantoms
This ^
TheTalisman
Ancient Mariner
It's more likely that the riff during the verses in Futureal inspired Adrian, lol.
People doesn't notice the similarity with the riff in Futureal that much though, because of the vocals.
People doesn't notice the similarity with the riff in Futureal that much though, because of the vocals.
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D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
There are two similarities. Groove and key. Key is the most popular tuning's root
But it ain't. Groove and root are the same which is hardly unexpected for metal. The E powerchord part is different and slightly more complex in Wicker Man. First, it starts with open muted 6th string. Regardless of that, the powerchord is never played complete as the accents alter between fifth-octave interval and root note. The interval is played with heavy vibrato, as are C and G. The vibrato is so important that you basically must do C and G on the A string position because due to different tension in different parts of the fretboard you aren't going to get the vibrato in other case.
If you use same techniques (or nuances) to play Wicker Man as you would with Running Wild it is not going to be Wicker Man riff.
There is a top notch example of importants of nuance - Walk by Pantera. There was a shit ton of riffs in metal that had same groove and same notes but they aren't played "in the same way". As vibrato and the accents make up the Wicker Man riff the bend makes the Walk riff. Very simple.
But it ain't. Groove and root are the same which is hardly unexpected for metal. The E powerchord part is different and slightly more complex in Wicker Man. First, it starts with open muted 6th string. Regardless of that, the powerchord is never played complete as the accents alter between fifth-octave interval and root note. The interval is played with heavy vibrato, as are C and G. The vibrato is so important that you basically must do C and G on the A string position because due to different tension in different parts of the fretboard you aren't going to get the vibrato in other case.
If you use same techniques (or nuances) to play Wicker Man as you would with Running Wild it is not going to be Wicker Man riff.
There is a top notch example of importants of nuance - Walk by Pantera. There was a shit ton of riffs in metal that had same groove and same notes but they aren't played "in the same way". As vibrato and the accents make up the Wicker Man riff the bend makes the Walk riff. Very simple.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
PieceofMind89
Ancient Mariner
Burning Ambition is a great song that should have made the final cut of the first album.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I think it's a very reasonable assumption given that Priest were one of the few metal bands on the scene when the members of Maiden were in their formative years. At the very least Paul Di'Anno was probably aware of it as he name drops "Delivering the Goods" on the version of Wrathchild from Metal for Muthas, and that was a track from the same album as Running Wild.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I doubt you can consider one chord to be plagiarized either.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Fact. So many bands that "borrowed" that riff. Although my conclusion is the opposite. They're simple nuances. But it's all relative with the degree of originality one demands regarding music. For me it's not enough adding 2 notes, or a pull, an harmonic or minor adornements. For others it suffices. Regarding wether it's plagiarism or not I really don't care. What bugs me is everytime TWM kicks in I feel the urge to go "RIGHT!" like Halford in Unleashed In The East.
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karljant
Ancient Mariner
I get your point and undoubtly the riff is there (once again). But the reason why I don't see Futureal as a blatant copy is not so much because of the vocal overlay. In this case 2 more notes are added to the verse part (like in the TWM) but it also features the main guitar lick, which is easily what stands out during this section while the rest remains accessory. On the other hand TWM's riff dynamic is heavily built upon that very part. Other reason is that the song doesn't kick in with that riff (both Running wild and TWM do, underlining even more the akward resemblance). Finally There's a difference between similitude in 75% and 50% of a section (bearing in mind that in the case of the most similar one - TWM - the verse only features 4 different notes). So here's a curious case that doesn't sound that alarming to me although featuring the very same riff. But in all honesty one must admit: it's also there.
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