srfc
Ancient Mariner
I think you've probably been reading too much pie in the sky on internet forums.
Your Maiden blasphemy
- Thread starter mckindog
- Start date
I think you've probably been reading too much pie in the sky on internet forums.
The Final Frontier actually has some of my favorite guitar playing on a Maiden album. All three of them have some pretty awesome moments and I like that they took some chances with something different (e.g. Dave’s backmasked solo on Man Who Would Be King and Adrian’s fusion-y solo on Isle of Avalon). Some of the guitar tones are really nice too. The three players are more distinct than on any other album, tonally. It reminds me of the 80s albums where Adrian and Dave each had a distinct, well crafted sound that was unique to that album.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
Guitar solos are TFF's only real weakness imo. Coming home has fantastic solos and that's it.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Why are people flagging The Alchemist as a "rushjob" or implying that it's unintentional?
Read the fucking quotes. The quotes clearly tell that Janick re-recorded the solo purposely to play & construct the solo the way it ended up on the album. This is not sloppy or unintentional. He played it this way with this effect in mind. Criticise his judgement. Criticise whether it fits the song. Don't conflate this with technique & execution. It's crystal clear the lead sounds like this because he wanted it to sound like this.
Read the fucking quotes. The quotes clearly tell that Janick re-recorded the solo purposely to play & construct the solo the way it ended up on the album. This is not sloppy or unintentional. He played it this way with this effect in mind. Criticise his judgement. Criticise whether it fits the song. Don't conflate this with technique & execution. It's crystal clear the lead sounds like this because he wanted it to sound like this.
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
Because it sounds like one? I don't have a problem with Janick's solos or playing in general but I genuinely am surprised to hear that apparently he actually re-recorded that solo because the final product is just poor. It's weird this is suddenly becoming a sticking point, anyway. Saying something sounds like a half-hearted effort isn't the same as saying it literally is, the first implies that's what it sounds like to the listener, while the second one is a claim that needs actual proof.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
How is it "just poor"? Poor what? Poor fit? Poor playing? Poor execution? C'mon, you're just sounding like another member of the "sloppy Janick" club.
Edington
Last Son of The Miracle
I'd disagree. While I think the solos are a massive step up from AMOLAD they still aren't really up to the Amigos usual standards. King and Avalon are certainly decent solos, but I think the former is only really interesting due to the way it was recorded and the latter is rather self indulgent.
I like Coming Home (H), Wild Wind (H + Jan) and Final Frontier (H), everything else feels a little lackluster.
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
I think you might be getting a bit antsy with the accusations there, bud. I thought Jer's claims were super vague and too broad to be taken as serious criticism, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to dislike Janick's playing or, yes, find it sloppy by whatever subjective measure they choose to use.
In this particular case, my problem is that the solo is not memorable, not very melodic (see the singability test by Mosh above) and it's not even close to being in the right meter. It sounds like a collection of semi-random runs, and ones he uses pretty often at that. I wouldn't actually call it sloppy (and indeed I did not claim it was in this conversation) because of the execution itself - I can tell Janick was going for something and wasn't struggling with playing the part or anything like that - but I will say that it does not appeal to me that much because it fails to leave any sort of lasting impression. It's just too chaotic and sounds like a placeholder because of that, like something you'd build another solo off of.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
I don't agree, but
for the explanation.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
And furthermore, the others were quite happy with the result - otherwise he'd have been overruled and they'd have made him use the first one ...
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
You apparently have me on ignore so you won’t read this, but my sense post-reunion has been that everyone just lets the others do their thing and doesn’t make a fuss. Thus the sharp rise in hyper-repetitive choruses, sloppy solos, bloated songwriting, etc., because they’re not fighting for what they think is best anymore, they just want to do their thing and keep the drama to a minimum, and the end result is good enough.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
If a listener with no context would have difficulty telling the difference between the intentional “on the edge” playing by a supposed expert and the sloppy off-rhythm mistakes of an amateur who hasn’t fully gotten a handle on their instrument yet, don’t you think that’s enough to at least raise an eyebrow?
The solo in “The Alchemist” seriously sounds to me like some teenager in their first garage band saying “I’m gonna play something really fast and cool”, and then slapping their fingers randomly around a note while haphazardly picking strings. I expect something a little better from a professional guitar player.
If you like it, more power to you — but it’s a little disingenuous to react as if it’s absurd that anyone would consider it to be bad for these reasons.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Do you play guitar Jer?
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I don't know what was the extent of the fight, but Smith wasn't satisfied with production decisions of TFF and publicly spoke about it. McBrain, Murray, Gers...they are not involved with the studio side of things. Smith, Dickinson and Harris are.
Again, that solo is not atonal (every tone is of good frequency), it does not have a single achromatic sequence (notes are in a particular scale) in there, and it might not have good melodic quality or groove, but it is proper.
And actually the trait of a professional guitar player would be to slap fingers randomly up and down the fretboard and still remain aligned to the chords of the background. If he really gave zero thought about it his intuition would recognize the scale and progression and finger muscle memory would do the rest.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Enough to know that when I feel like I could play something better than what I’m hearing the professional play, something isn’t right.
Confeos
Game time started.
The Final Frontier is my least favourite album of the reunion-era, and, reading Shirley's diary, it does seem to have had the most troubled production of the post-2000 albums. Both H and Bruce voiced some dissatisfaction at various points, but in the end Steve and Shirley called the shots. Look at how they overruled H regarding the final mixing of the record, for example:
Kevin Shirley said:
I have no doubt that if Steve wasn't satisfied with any of the solos, he would've made the guitarist in question re-record it.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Steve's the one that goes with the final amen so I'm sure he likes everything that's been released.
Also that Shirley log entry clearly outlines why they don't fight any more - it is not about egos it is about schedule. In all possibility Shirley and Harris would do an alternate mix if they had time left. The "neither of us" is revealing and that means if Adrian knew how to use all the equipment he'd do it himself. But he needed Shirley or Harris to assist him, clearly. Which is why he can be only disappointed.
Also that Shirley log entry clearly outlines why they don't fight any more - it is not about egos it is about schedule. In all possibility Shirley and Harris would do an alternate mix if they had time left. The "neither of us" is revealing and that means if Adrian knew how to use all the equipment he'd do it himself. But he needed Shirley or Harris to assist him, clearly. Which is why he can be only disappointed.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
TFF contains some of their most heavy and most progressive moments. With 3 guitars and Steve's bass sound, it's a bit of a task. Not achievable if you approach the studio as a run in run out affair. When they released El Dorado, yeah it was a MP3 but I knew album won't sound as half as good as AMOLAD.
The worst end-product tho, Dance of Death. Instrument sound is OK. It's like a Brave New World tour live sound, but non-reverberated, dry. But then it got compressed to brick levels.
There's something iffy about DoD era overall, I didn't like it then I don't like it much now. The album tour wasn't big and it was put in between two sizable history legs. The album singles have a very "wide-appealing" lyrics and those "MTV ready" videos, especially Rainmaker. The whole "we have Eddie so we don't have to be fashionable" falls flat with the Rainmaker promo video. The overcompression of and album with overpopulation of "short rockers" reeks loudness wars to me and that's called being commercial, my friends.
Good that AMOLAD did a 360 on that.
Edit : and thinking more of it, there are a lot of parallels between FOTD-TXF progression and DOD-AMOLAD progression.
