Worldwide Politics

[Vaenyr]

Why do you think my post has to be confrontational—that is, directed at some specific user? I already answered you: is it forbidden to voice one’s concerns, even if they’re partly rhetorical or theoretical, about certain aspects of politics?" And if this is a made-up problem to you, then let’s agree to disagree.

This has nothing to do with confrontation. I'm not asking which member said something along the lines. You made a pretty definitive claim that sounds incredibly outlandish and I would like to entertain that thought. I'm asking you how you came to such a conclusion.

In other words: Who denies radical Islamism as a threat and says it doesn't exist? Germany? France? The US? The UK? Spain? Italy?

Again, pretty simple question. Don't know why it's so difficult to answer.

 

[Vaenyr]

And to explain my confusion and why I'd like an answer:

A rhetorical question is asked to make a point. Saying "it's time to stop denying radical Islamism exists" isn't a rhetorical question. It's a statement. Which begs the question "who is denying it?", otherwise we can't engage with this raised problem.

Of course anyone is free to raise concerns. Pretending all (some? one? many? few?) governments aren't taking your concerns seriously and are outright denying their existence is quite a bit different than "raising concerns".

Healthy and constructive discussion requires a baseline of facts and truth. If we just make up strawmen to shadowbox with, there's nothing to discuss, nothing to interact with in any meaningful capacity. Which renders the whole thing quite meaningless. As far as I know we have a rant thread on the board, which might be more suitable, if the whole point was to simply air your frustration and refusing to actually elaborate on positions.

 

[GhostofCain]

The fact that people with such an ideology are present and posing a threat in Western and Anglosphere countries in such large numbers is proof that the threat has not been taken seriously enough up until now, it is and always has been an entirely avoidable problem. For instance in Britain it is estimated that some 30,000 such individuals are on the MI5 terror watchlist (75% of the total watchlist, and a roughly 11-12x rate of over-representation). The next time one of them blows themselves up, runs people over in a vehicular attack or goes on a shooting or stabbing spree it will more than likely be reported that they were 'known to the authorities'. Not good enough.

Out of curiosity, where do those figures come from?

 

[Azas]

So… the need to defend Christmas markets in Germany is absolutely—baseline—normal? If not—and it isn’t—then that answers all the questions you addressed to me.

 

[Vaenyr]

So… the need to defend Christmas markets in Germany is absolutely—baseline—normal? If not—and it isn’t—then that answers all the questions you addressed to me.

The fact that there is a police presence proves that they are taking radical Islamism seriously, which in turn proves that your earlier claims were unfounded and contradictory. Glad you concede that you just made up stuff to be angry once again, that's all I needed

 

[UpTheIrons]

Out of curiosity, where do those figures come from?

The 75% figure comes from a threat update given by MI5 in October 2024:

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/director-general-ken-mccallum-gives-latest-threat-update

There was a similar address given in October of this year but as far as I can tell it does not provide a percentage breakdown, so I am making the assumption that these figures have not drastically shifted in the last year.

The estimate of this as being some 30,000 people is based on the fact that in mid-2020, the total number of individuals on the list was 43,000. It seems like these numbers are not periodically released, probably for reasons of security or secrecy. This was the most up-to-date figure I could find - in an article from The Times, but the original source is a government report published around this time:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article...r-mi5-rechecks-its-list-pqm6k62ph?gaa_at=eafs

 

[Azas]

Colleague, I see how you’re trying to spin my words in your favor, but I respectfully disagree. The increased police presence at festive markets proves the opposite: the watchdogs were not present when bad actors entered Germany. Of course, you won’t catch everyone, but you have to try harder.

 

[GhostofCain]

The 75% figure comes from a threat update given by MI5 in October 2024:

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/director-general-ken-mccallum-gives-latest-threat-update

There was a similar address given in October of this year but as far as I can tell it does not provide a percentage breakdown, so I am making the assumption that these figures have not drastically shifted in the last year.

The estimate of this as being some 30,000 people is based on the fact that in mid-2020, the total number of individuals on the list was 43,000. It seems like these numbers are not periodically released, probably for reasons of security or secrecy. This was the most up-to-date figure I could find - in an article from The Times, but the original source is a government report published around this time:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article...r-mi5-rechecks-its-list-pqm6k62ph?gaa_at=eafs

Thanks.