Well, a new song, not a bad idea...rerecording Something Wicked, though...it's almost blasphemous. At least they kept it as a b-side, like Maiden did with Prowler and Charlotte the Harlot 88.
Who are your second favourite metal band?
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Anonymous
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The new song isn't all that good either.
A
Anonymous
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Forostar said:
The Something Wicked trilogy featured on the single is a remake. And a pretty poor one also.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
That's a b-side. That's something else as remaking a whole album (which could be interpretated from some of the above statements).
I've never been a fan of the SWTWC studio album, by the way.
You know why? I discovered it after I'd heard Alive in Athens. Compared to the live versions, the SW-tracks are not interesting and sound a bit weak. The songs which are not on AiA are fillers, while most songs of other olders albums, which are not on AiA, are cool classics.
So in a way I don't care for the studio release of SWTWC. Alive in Athens kills it. Just my 2 cents.
About re-recording a long classic song, I can't see what's wrong with it. I think I'd love it if Maiden would do something like that.
(Haven't heard it yet!)
I've never been a fan of the SWTWC studio album, by the way.
You know why? I discovered it after I'd heard Alive in Athens. Compared to the live versions, the SW-tracks are not interesting and sound a bit weak. The songs which are not on AiA are fillers, while most songs of other olders albums, which are not on AiA, are cool classics.
So in a way I don't care for the studio release of SWTWC. Alive in Athens kills it. Just my 2 cents.
About re-recording a long classic song, I can't see what's wrong with it. I think I'd love it if Maiden would do something like that.
(Haven't heard it yet!)
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Anonymous
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Forostar said:
There's nothing wrong with it per se, I just think Iced Earth didn't do a very good job with this particular rerecording.
I have to agree...they especially killed Prophecy. It made me wince.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Conservative twats!
Seriously, it's an original remake. The atmosphere is quite different, but I hear some interesting differences, musically seen. I guess that they just didn't want to re-record it exactly the same way.
Anyway, I like it. Great drums, and it all sounds very tight and modern.
Seriously, it's an original remake. The atmosphere is quite different, but I hear some interesting differences, musically seen. I guess that they just didn't want to re-record it exactly the same way.
Anyway, I like it. Great drums, and it all sounds very tight and modern.
Claire
Prowler
Forostar said:
I've got "Killing Machine" on red vinyl & it is my pride & joy. My nickname at college was "Mrs. Halford"
I don't like the cover of "Johnny B. Goode" *at* all, the original is fine. Should've been left alone in my opinion. I've already said I like "Demolition". "Close To You" is fantastic. One of the many reasons I like JP so much is because so many of their songs mean something to me in some way [it's too long & complicated to get into]
I'd love to meet them someday or at least get to see them live, & I would've joined their FC long ago if they had one.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
That's exactly the problem. It's tight, but there's no feeling there at all. In tinkering with the originals so that he could make them different, Schaffer sucks all the life out of them. He had to take away half the contrast in Prophecy because Ripper can't do the quiet parts effectively. He completely destroys most of the main riffs with the ridiculous amount of palm muting he uses, and the vocals on The Coming Curse are laughable, at best. Even the cameo of Hansi Kursch in the interlude does little to redeem it.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Raven said:
OK, but then I say you're obviously not a big fan of Owens. And don't get mad when people say that Blaze sucks balls, because technically he does, compared with Owens. Owens doesn't fit less to Iced Earth than Blaze fit to Iron Maiden. It's a bit of an off-topic comment, but I felt someone had to say this, to judge things in a good perspective.
About Schaffer's guitar playing, I think it's magnificent and in a way unique. Often copied, still above all others.
I agree with you on the atmosphere. It's less melancholic, especially the chorus of The Prophecy. Still there are a lot of new musical elements added in this trilogy, e.g. "Eastern" elements, which make up for it imo. So I don't care that much for a change of atmosphere in certain parts. Besides: Iced Earth often had some melancholy-overkill. The most melancholic ones, such as "Melancholy" and "I Died For You", are so sweet sounding that it's a bit over the top, if you ask me. Iced Earth's strengths have always been dark, angry and aggressive songs.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
'Dark, angry, aggressive'? That's not how I'd describe the remake in the slightest. Ripper just can't come across convincingly as angry or aggressive; every other Iced Earth vocalist (with Gene Adams excepted...I haven't heard their s/t) could pull off songs like Pure Evil or (in Barlow's case) Burnt Offerings...Ripper just has no emotion in his voice at all. Even in Priest, he sounded like what he is; a Rob Halford tribute vocalist.
But enough of the Ripper-hating. Schaffer's the true culprit in the travesty. The original SW trilogy sucked you into the story and made you feel what Barlow conveyed...the new one doesn't do that at all.
And Owens will always be worse in Iced Earth than Blaze was in Maiden, in my mind, because Owens' style isn't that far removed from Barlow's, so comparisons will be made...Blaze had a more individual sound, compared to Bruce.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Raven said:
I have to agree with you here at some points, but technically Ripper is one of the best live singers around. Ripper shines on Gettysburg and Declaration Day and on quite some Priest tracks he did an excellent job, especially the classic ones, which cannot be said of Blaze.
It depends on the vocal melodies as well, Schaffer didn't write enough good songs on The Glorious Burden to judge Ripper well enough imo. Let's hope he will on the upcoming releases.
Raven said:
Then Harris is a true culprit as well? The re-recordings of Prowler and Charlot the Harlot were thrilling, right?
Raven said:
Exactly, in your mind. In most other minds people were very happy that Blaze left the band after two studio albums.
Mostly for Blaze being the worst known live singer on the planet. He couldn't hold tone and didn't fit with Maiden's old songs, which were very important on the set.
Raven said:
And that's what Maiden forced to change the songs. You don't criticize Maiden for it but you do criticize IE for it. By the way, I think Owens style is very different from Barlow's and so it's logical that Schaffer had a different approach to this IE epic.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
I haven't heard them.
Forostar said:
I've seen videos of Ripper singing old IE songs, and they really aren't much better than Blaze's attempts at classic Maiden.
Forostar said:
Correction; Maiden changed their song structure to suit Blaze. IE haven't...Glorious Burden was written for Barlow's voice, before he left the band, and the majority of the changes in the SW trilogy are not major structural changes...as a matter of fact, most of the changes I detest aren't Ripper's fault at all...he sings the way he has always sung, and Schaffer fiddles about with the technicalities. I wouldn't even mind the changes if they gave a different slant on the song, but palm muting a riff so much so that all you can hear is a stuttering rhythm with hardly any traces of the melody does not constitute a new interperetation, in my opinion.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Raven said:
So that's logical isn't it?
The remake of the trilogy and the upcoming material are different matters. Iced Earth might have changed the songwriting (and in this case the remake of the trilogy) to suit Ripper.
I doubt that you would be positive if Jon decided just to release the old version with Ripper's vocals dubbing Mat's.
Raven said:
Well, I guess that we hear different things in this remake. I agree that the structure is not very different, but the execution is. The Prophecy's chorus is the biggest difference. And I hope that the material written for Ripper's style will be of better quality than most fillers of The Glorious Burden.
I am not saying I will adore the new album, I have to hear it first, but at least this single made me very curious and the metal production is thundering, so to speak !
Wow, awesome argument. Personally I enjoy the new track on the ep more than the rerecorded old ones. I don't think they're nearly as good as the originals, and I don't think I ever will. But that's because the originals are great songs, and quite frankly, Schaffer didn't retool them to suit Ripper, and so Ripper was singing to a range he shouldn't have been. Just my two cents.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
If Schaffer had just re-released the old versions with dubbed vocals, I would have despised it as well. You see, the thing is, Schaffer wrote the originals. He knows what he was doing when he wrote them, and I don't see why he shouldn't change them if he's re-recording them. My point is that he removed most of what made the originals great; the melody lines in the riffs, the contrast in Prophecy, the synth/bass playoff in the accelerando bridge of Prophecy etc. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...
As to the new song on the disc, I found it quite boring. Not bad, but not good, either. If you haven't gathered this, I really don't like Owens, and it's not a personal vendetta...I've tried to like his voice in Priest, Iced Earth and Beyond Fear, and it just hasn't worked.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I don't want to misjudge you, because I have a lot of respect for your posts (you know way more about metal than I did around your age). But Owens came to Priest in a time when you were, let's say, 7 years old. I guess I had more time to get used to his voice than you had, unless you were listening to Priest from that age, which would be very cool, to be honest! 
Well, in the end it's indeed a matter of taste, so you might not even like Owens when you're 35 or something.
I definitely think that Barlow fits better to Iced Earth than Owens does. At the same time I don't dislike Owen's voice, I like him a lot and he is one of the few who can sing and scream so hard and high, live on stage.
I am thrilled that Barlow takes up his microphone again, and judging the songs from his current band Pyramaze this can promise a lot of good things!
So for the moment I am trying to enjoy both bands - we'll see what we'll get!
Well, in the end it's indeed a matter of taste, so you might not even like Owens when you're 35 or something.
I definitely think that Barlow fits better to Iced Earth than Owens does. At the same time I don't dislike Owen's voice, I like him a lot and he is one of the few who can sing and scream so hard and high, live on stage.
I am thrilled that Barlow takes up his microphone again, and judging the songs from his current band Pyramaze this can promise a lot of good things!
So for the moment I am trying to enjoy both bands - we'll see what we'll get!
Raven
Ancient Mariner
As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I haven't really given myself much time to listen to Owens' voice, because it's just one of those things...anything will grow on you if you listen to it enough, and Owens' voice just grates with me. I'll always love Priest, and I would seriously consider seeing Iced Earth live if they came anywhere near me, but I can't see myself really liking Owens' voice, even in the future. Miracles have been known to happen, though...
As for Pyramaze, they're a good band, but I don't know how well Barlow will fit their style. It should be a good match, though, so I'll watch them closely.
As for Pyramaze, they're a good band, but I don't know how well Barlow will fit their style. It should be a good match, though, so I'll watch them closely.