What made Clive so special?

chaosapiant

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
I'm not a drummer. I hear lots of drummers on a regular basis though. My question is literally in the subject: why was Clive so well regarded as a drummer? When I listen to Nicko, he just blows away Clive in every sense, and most other drummers as well. In an age where everyone is trying to one up each other with double bass, no one sounds like Nicko. When I listen to the first three Maiden albums, which I've been doing for over 30 years now, I just don't hear anything super special or standout about him.

To be clear, this is not a knock against Clive. I'm asking because I'm ignorant on his place in the drumming world and want to understand so I can better appreciate his work. He's a very solid drummer, but nothing stands out to me regarding his playing.
 
Since I'm at work now is the time to read it. Thanks! I'll use my face and read this thread.

Update: I read the thread, but it wasn't super helpful to my question. I see lots of musicians point to Clive as a major influence and I'm trying to figure out what is unique about his playing that would be influencial. He was fast and steady and punky, and I can hear that. But when I listen to Nicko it's like comparing Di'anno and Bruce. Di'anno was a dude with a fantastic voice, but Bruce is on a whole 'nother plane of existence when it comes to vocals. I feel the same about Nicko's drumming. As a dude who's never played drums, I can listen to Nicko and go "yea, no one plays like this". His mixture of single footed bass pedal work with his busy tom fills, snare interplay, and constant jangling cymbals give him a sound that makes it seem like he has 6 arms. Clive is a great drummer, but I don't hear anything that I can single out and go "yea, no one was doing this back in the late 70s/early 80s and it makes sense how folks would be influenced."
 
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Well, if you isolate Clive Burr then perhaps on his own he wasn't terribly original, but´his way of playing is part of what makes those early Maiden albums what they were. By bringing in that punk edge to the songs, the looseness but also the speed. You can try and imagine Nicko playing on the debut or Killers....he could have done it, but personally I think it wouldn't have the same raw wildness to it. It's just preference and what "turns you on" muscially. For example, some thrash bands are influenced by NWOBHM, and so for thrash metal drummers, they would for sure be more influenced by Burr than Nicko...especially if they grew up on the first three albums, which many did.
 
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SixesAlltheway said:
Well, if you isolate Clive Burr then perhaps on his own he wasn't terribly original, but´his way of playing is part of what makes those early Maiden albums what they were. By bringing in that punk edge to the songs, the looseness but also the speed. You can try and imagine Nicko playing on the debut or Killers....he could have done it, but personally I think it wouldn't have the same raw wildness to it. It's just preference and what "turns you on" muscially. For example, some thrash bands are influenced by NWOBHM, and so for thrash metal drummers, they would for sure be more influenced by Burr than Nicko...especially if they grew up on the first three albums, which many did.
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That's what I was just going to post, but you put it better :ok::

He was a thrash drummer before thrash was invented, without knowing it.
He had aggression and intensity unlike any other Maiden drummer.
Back then, he sounded like a younger Ian Paice on steroids.
 
Magnus said:
That's what I was just going to post, but you put it better :ok::

He was a thrash drummer before thrash was invented, without knowing it.
He had aggression and intensity unlike any other Maiden drummer.
Back then, he sounded like a younger Ian Paice on steroids.
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Right, it's the same thing with Phil Taylor of Motörhead, he's not a "great" drummer by any means, but he's a kin' GREAT drummer in Motörhead! :D
 
Those are good descriptions and based on them, I don't feel I'm missing anything, so that's good. I like Phil Taylor a lot, along with whoever drummed on the Priest album with Dissident Aggressor, and Gar Samuelson.
 
chaosapiant said:
Those are good descriptions and based on them,
I don't feel I'm missing anything, so that's good. I like Phil Taylor a lot, along with whoever drummed on the Priest album with Dissident Aggressor, and Gar Samuelson.
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Simon Phillips. Great drummer with an amazing CV:

www.vintageheavymetal.com

Judas Priest Drummer Reflects On Sin After Sin | Vintage Heavy Metal

It has been forty one years since session drummer Simon Phillips' amazing contribution to Judas Priests 1977 masterpiece “Sin After Sin.”
www.vintageheavymetal.com www.vintageheavymetal.com
 
GhostofCain said:
Simon Phillips. Great drummer with an amazing CV:

www.vintageheavymetal.com

Judas Priest Drummer Reflects On Sin After Sin | Vintage Heavy Metal

It has been forty one years since session drummer Simon Phillips' amazing contribution to Judas Priests 1977 masterpiece “Sin After Sin.”
www.vintageheavymetal.com www.vintageheavymetal.com
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Simon Phillips is a fucking monster drummer. He recorded this, which has an amazing drum track.

No need to mention he replaced Jeff Porcaro in Toto after his untimely death.


But, back to topic, I think Clive had a special vibe (not so special as Nicko, tho). I think The Prisoner showcases this the best.
 
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(@chaosapiant and others who are interested)

I'll describe them as I hear and feel them:

Nicko:
I regard Nicko as an open, more loose player, with big sound. He's a wide ranged, big, long armed octopus with well equipped technique. A great ride cymbal and bass drum player. His playing is not straight, you hear dynamics and movement.

Clive:
I regard his playing as an explosive bolt of concentrated power. Clive's force is more bundled together with precise, sudden and aggressive crash cymbal hits and fast hi-hat playing. The man plays intense, focused and with lots of feel. A very tight player.

Love them both, with each having their own style.
 
Imo one of the best ways to hear the difference is to hear live recordings of both drummers playing Phantom of the Opera in the early 80s.
 
And Transylvania and Prowler. (Well.... about every studio and live song Clive played on, especially the first two albums)
 
I have always preferred all Burr/Di'Anno versions of songs over their McBrain/Dickinson equivalents, there's a spark there that isn't quite the same later on. I'm not the best musical analyst but I just gave a listen to Phantom in 80/1, Rainbow and Bremen and 83 Ipswich and LAD. The versions with Clive are far better than the Nicko ones, Clive just compliments Steve so well on those early, aggressive tunes. Without a wealth of technical knowledge, it seems to me that the notes on the bass and drums are in fiery sync. When Nicko comes in it seems, to me, that Steve doesn't play as hard. Like, he goes 1-2-3 instead of 1-23-4. Clive and Nicko are different people and they will play differently but I wonder if Steve calmed down a little and this is what really highlights the difference in ferocity of the likes of Phantom in 81 and 84. And obviously Paul destroys Bruce on Phantom and most others from the first 2 albums.

Any technical people have an opinion on this? I will always prefer the earlier versions but I'd like to know what ye think about any changes in Steves playin.
 
Niall Kielt said:
Any thoughts on whether Steves playin changed and if that has an effect on comparisons between Clive and Nicko?
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Different band members have said that Nicko joining the band allowed the material to go in a more intricate direction. Perhaps Steve did not feel the need to play that hard?

One for people to ask him after the British Lion shows in December?
 
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