USA Politics

An American Pope being elected this year in particular was on nobody's bingo card, I guess.

So The new Pope is from the U.S Robert Prevost aka Leo XIV. Time to make the Vatican great again?

Yeah, he's more of a moderate, if anything. I think he's a great choice, regarding the US, actually. First US pope, yet a rather anti-Trump pick of sorts.

Just a guy named Bob from Chicago, innit?
 
I mean - and I'm double posting intentionally, to dramatically keep the while it took me to realise it - this is absolutely brilliant. US Catholics having their own American Pope who spent most of his life taking care of the poor in Peru is just genius.

BTW, the previous Leo, Leo XIII (who must have been an inspiration) actually released Rerum novarum, one of the first social encyclicals (and a rather early pro-social documents in general). Yet he was orthodox, an intellectual and a Thomist. I see a potential for crossing the divides here.
 
I mean - and I'm double posting intentionally, to dramatically keep the while it took me to realise it - this is absolutely brilliant. US Catholics having their own American Pope who spent most of his life taking care of the poor in Peru is just genius.
I wonder if anti-catholic sentiment will rise, since they've always been criticized for following a foreign leader.
 
It’s interesting that the US politics thread is the place where this topic is happening. Anyone can feel free to open a new pope thread btw.
 
It’s interesting that the US politics thread is the place where this topic is happening. Anyone can feel free to open a new pope thread btw.

Well, an American pope is a big deal, methinks. It was for Poland, and nobody expected it from the US, especially currently.

Couldn't we rename the Pope is Dope thread to something like Catholicism (& Popes) thread or something? I mean, I could just generally spam there.
 
To be clear, I wasn't saying that this was an inappropriate place to discuss it, just more a comment on how significant an American pope is. No matter what happened, I think one of the first things many people would be interested in is how the pope deals with Trump (as well as the current rise of fascism around the globe), but this is going to put it under an even larger microscope imo.

I get that it's a very American viewpoint, and I will provide more general thoughts on the pope in the other thread, but I have a hard time not seeing this as an intentional statement from the church about the state of American politics. I'm not sure we get an American pope with a President Harris in office, for example. I actually think there's potential for huge backlash against the pope in America primarily from protestant right wingers, but this will probably also drive a wedge within the Catholic church if Pope Leo becomes a foil for Trump. Pope Leo is now the second most influential American world leader, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out during the remainder of Trump's term.
 
I honestly don't know where to answer this, since it seems to cover the scope of both threads, but as you say
I get that it's a very American viewpoint
and, well, it is, I find it fitting to answer here.

First of all, liking (or voting for, at any rate) Trump for Catholics is a complete anomaly. Most of the Church is anything but fascist (well, I suppose it depends on your definition of the term as well), but yeah, there are "conservatives" and "progressives" in the Church, but they don't always follow the same dichotomy in secular politics.

There are many Church conservatives (me among them) who are vehementy anti-racist, don't want too much of a state control over its citizens, care for the poor and the downtrodden (and generally are quite "left", economically) and are against death penalty, for example. Let alone being disgusted at Trump being downright vulgar.
The conservativism may instead be oriented towards a more spectacular liturgy, the ordination of female deacons and so on, but it doesn't always fit with the secular world and especially US conservatism.

Bear in mind that one of the beacons of "conservative thought" within the church, Chesterton, was against Socialism AND Capitalism and actually came with the idea of Distributism, which is supposed to take as much as possible from Catholic social teaching and to repair the faults of both Socialism and Capitalism (and the underlying materialism).

However, over time, US Catholics have made strange bedfellows with US Evangelicals, mainly because they seemed to follow certain similar goals and they felt similarly underrepresented in the US society (which is nothing new, William F. Buckley, Jr. wrote his God and Man at Yale about the aggressive secularisation of academia in 1951). Together they fought the devil of unbridled abortion desire, together they fought the devil of unrestricted immigration, no-go zones and the feeling of lack of safety within the city limits, together they fought wokism, kids painting flags of their orientation and their gender in primary school and so on. Before you accuse me of conservative dogwhistling - I am merely describing, I say what people feel and why they act accordingly.

I do have contact with US Catholics, many of them haven't voted for Trump (and went for American Solidarity Party, the US Catholic party in all but name, instead or haven't voted at all) or did so with a certain amount of distrust and revulsion - but got convinced he is the lesser evil. (I'm merely describing, I don't condone the opinion). But they shouldn't have to. Honestly, being only slightly less bloodthirsty in the abortion crusade, Dems would have scored quite a bit of Catholics regardless.

Which is why
this will probably also drive a wedge within the Catholic church if Pope Leo becomes a foil for Trump
I don't fear this. I think most will take the Pope over Trump.

However
I have a hard time not seeing this as an intentional statement from the church about the state of American politics.
this I believe is also true. It is a reaction to Trump, I think, and what's more - it isn't just a knee-jerk reaction, but an actual alternative, someone who is against Trump in many ways, but isn't just the political opposite - on the contrary, by picking the name Leo XIV and using traditional vestments, it is an extended hand to the "conservative" wing of the Church, to show they don't have to be (and should not be) American first, right-wing second and Catholic only third, but that there is always a third way.

Pope Leo is now the second most influential American world leader, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out during the remainder of Trump's term.

I wonder - as there are over a billion Catholics worldwide, on every continent (some put the number as high as a billion and a half), I'd argue that Leo is going to be the single most influential American ever, currently. Definitely more influential than Trump who (deservedly) gets opposition even in his own party. Sure, the Pope has no nukes, but still..
 
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Nah, Bill Maher sucks. He's a deeply unserious person high on his own farts.
Also, no, he most definitely does not have a point, because he's once again simply arguing against a strawman. The thing he's whining about is not something that is happening in reality. Fucking grifters lying so that morons keep being outraged.
 
I disagree. I don’t agree with him 100% — or maybe even 50% — of the time, he repeats himself too often, and he’s condescending to guests on his show.

But, he represents a middle-left cranky Boomer/Gen-X perspective of American discourse that should still be heard.
Bill Maher is a creep and a racist. And there's nothing left about him. He's gradually drifted to the right and is now basically a closet MAGA.
 
Nah, Bill Maher sucks. He's a deeply unserious person high on his own farts.
Also, no, he most definitely does not have a point, because he's once again simply arguing against a strawman. The thing he's whining about is not something that is happening in reality. Fucking grifters lying so that morons keep being outraged.
Maher's opinion changes like the wind and his predictions most often fall flat.
 
I probably wind up agreeing with Maher about 75-80% of the time, and I can totally relate to his observation that he’s stayed in the same place while many of his more left-leaning friends have gotten more and more progressive over time, leading to the conclusion that he’s somehow swung to the right, which he hasn’t.

By U.S. standards I’m pretty clearly center-left, but some people on this board have tried to paint me as a reactionary freak for not passing their progressive litmus tests, calling me a bigot, a transphobe, and who knows what else just because I’m not high on the smell of their farts. Sad and pathetic, but it makes them feel important, I guess.
 
Cha, just to make sure I’m not lying to myself, I ran through a couple of political leaning tests I found by searching on Google (I even added “Europe” to narrow it down). One of them gave me a result saying I’m progressive—which surprised me—and the other one (a bit more tailored to Europe) called me centrist. So yeah, I think most of us are doing just fine. It’s just that some folks go a bit overboard with the progressive stuff.

political test.png
 
Sir, you’ve chosen to put me on your ignore or mute list. So... I suggest you return to your Ivory Tower.
 
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