USA Politics

LooseCannon said:
Well, that's what I thought. I agree that right now government is making things more equal by fixing previous mistakes, at least in general in the US with the legalization of gay marriage, and in Canada with the upcoming legalization of pot. Though I wonder how much that would matter if society wasn't wanting to make this change.
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Clearly it would not matter at all ... just in 2008 California (of all places) rejected gay marriage. The legislature was not going to undo that
 
bearfan said:
The problem is the Democrats are not very moderate either .. Bill Clinton would never be nominated again. The fiscally conservative Democrats are long gone
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Yeah, I did note that amongst the increasingly left Democrats, but they're more central than the Tea Party, that much is for sure.
 
I dont agree with that. Extreme lefts like Bernie are as far from the center as the far right is IMO.
 
I just want to point out that Bernie is extreme left for the USA, but nowhere near an actual radical left. The USA is a more conservative country in general.
 
Bernie is obviously left, but as LC pointed out, not to a ridiculous or extremist degree. It's a relatively alien concept in modern times for such a left-wing leader to be such close contention for a presidential position.

I think my main problem with Bernie has nothing to do with his policies, it's that I just can't see him being a strong and determined leader. He's had his speeches interrupted by The Klan With A Tan and a bird of all things, and has difficulty expressing his ideas to the general public.
 
Mosh said:
I dont agree with that. Extreme lefts like Bernie are as far from the center as the far right is IMO.
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You don't know what extreme left is.
Last time I checked, there were still proper Communist and Socialist parties in the U.S. Those could be 'extreme' left, but I even doubt that.
 
LooseCannon said:
I just want to point out that Bernie is extreme left for the USA, but nowhere near an actual radical left. The USA is a more conservative country in general.
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I don't agree with this also. There are social issues and there is economy and based on your views you get mapped to a shade in the political spectrum. If 99% of U.S. politicians belong to just 1/5 of the spectral space, that doesn't mean that whole spectrum of issues doesn't exist. U.S. is, generally, working out the same issues as any democracy, and why should then 'extreme left' mean anything other than in, for example, Germany?

When you say extreme left, that's relative to the whole spectrum. When you say 'way more left than other Dems', that's relative to American state of things.
I know it's easier to write or say 'extreme'. It's cute, but it's wrong.
 
Because the US is not Germany ... in the US, he is really far left ... if you want to remove the word extreme .. fine. But he is well out of the norm. Thank God
 
One thing for sure, this will easily be the nastiest race in US history. This poll shows why .. 2 disliked candidates each of whom can only be elected by basically saying the other candidate is a bigger piece of shit than them

VOTERS THINK BOTH HILLARY CLINTON AND DONALD TRUMP WOULD MAKE BAD PRESIDENTS - HuffPollster: “Just 27 percent of voters think Clinton would be a great or good president, while 17 percent think she’d be about average, and 54 percent say she’d be either poor or terrible. Trump fares about equally, with 30 percent saying he’d be great or good, 8 percent that he’d be average, and 53 percent that he’d do poorly or terribly.”
 
Makes you realise that Obama was a really good president in retrospect. Not a Rushmore candidate or anything, but definitely the best since LBJ, or if you personally think Reagan was a good president (I personally hated him).
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
The only reason I really jumped in here is because when I read people dismissing "social issues" as unimportant (to them); it strikes me that these issues probably don't really effect them. It seems quite, for wont of a better word, uncaring sounding.
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To be frank, that's exactly the impression I have about most right wingers out here. Even if the impression differs from the truth, I rarely see people doing their best to come across as otherwise.
 
.. or of course the alternative is some people equate caring only to a specific set of policies they agree to and are rather close minded to other alternatives and enjoy stereotyping large groups of people as uncaring.
 
Suit yourself.

But I am serious. It strikes me how often issues (mostly the ones that have (indirectly) to do with race discrimination, weapon possession, mass shootings) are shockingly ignored or downplayed out here. At the end it seems to work. Hardly anyone wants to bring up these subjects anymore, while these are the most wrong things there are about the "United" States of America. What the hell is more important than these issues?

People from (e.g.) Denver (one already left after someone made a remark about his country) and Texas may think outsiders should shut their mouth about these painful issues, but fucking hell no; however painful criticism can be on a nation, it will never stop. Especially not when people do not show any understanding of these major problems.
 
Well, I don't know about that. America has fairly strong provisions for protecting against racial discrimination, for example. Those provisions are not currently being followed by all departments, and the data is showing that, and people are pushing for change, and indeed, the federal government is suing/forcing change on larger departments. So these things are happening. Americans have different values, maybe, than Europeans, when it comes to gun laws. And so?
 
Seems a bit surprising someone from an EU country complaining about a lack of United in the US. As I said, some people are close minded enough to think that people that have other ideas are uncaring or just stupid and do not understand the "real' solutions they come up with or get what the "real" issues are that you can get from reading a select set of news articles from thousands of miles away versus actually living here and have lived here for damn near a half a century. Laughable.
 
bearfan said:
Seems a bit surprising someone from an EU country complaining about a lack of United in the US. As I said, some people are close minded enough to think that people that have other ideas are uncaring or just stupid and do not understand the "real' solutions they come up with or get what the "real" issues are that you can get from reading a select set of news articles from thousands of miles away versus actually living here and have lived here for damn near a half a century. Laughable.
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The "ideas" you talk about mainly consist of being angry about black mobs. The lack of having a clue about what moves minorities when they are unjustly treated is so in contrast with what fits to the intellectual level I expect of a fanbase as Iron Maiden's.

Yes, the EU is also racist when refugees come here. I for one, acknowledge that and even have discussed with people who downplay their treatment.
 
bearfan said:
Obviously that means we like killing as many people as possible, double points for minorities when we are not out clubbing seals
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Then what does it really mean in your opinion?

"It is better to have a full wallet, care about yourself, fuck the rest, get off my law" perhaps?
EDIT:
Scratch that. It's easy to say which values are of less importance. But which values are more important to you, right wingers, than the ones I mentioned, two posts earlier?
 
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LOL at the notion Bernie Sanders is an extreme leftist. Real extreme leftists would consider Bernie a puppet of capitalism and a phony.
 
Forostar said:
Then what does it really mean in your opinion?

"It is better to have a full wallet, care about yourself, fuck the rest, get off my law" perhaps?
EDIT:
Scratch that. It's easy to say which values are of less importance. But which values are more important to you, right wingers, than the ones I mentioned, two posts earlier?
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There is a correlation between an good economy, good jobs, and people working and the amount of crap minorities get. Some like to point out the ability to speak was the reason for the Nazis, if the economy of Germany was ship shape post- WWI it would not have mattered what they said. Many many many non-Nazi examples of various groups being treated poorly around the world when a country goes to shit economically. In fact, I would say that is a primary driver of all this. So yeah, money and jobs are very important and should be at the top of anyone's list for a variety of reasons social issues, environment, health, general well being, ability to get good food/housing, and on and on and on.

Edit: Add education. It is hard to go to school when your family counts on you to provide food. I would point out one of my Grandfathers as a prime example of this. Real smart guy, never got past 6th grade because he had to work. I can promise you all these social issues move way to the back of everyone's list when their main concern is "will we eat today". I'll also add that as recently as 2008 in California, the same people that were rushing to the polls to give Obama a huge win in that state were also voting against gay marriage. Biggest anti-gay marriage voting block from that group came from blacks
 
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