Unplayed live songs and the future of Maiden: what's next?
- Thread starter Mosh
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srfc
Ancient Mariner
Exactly, there's no way that Maiden fans deliberately play Wasting Love even a fraction of the plays it gets, it would probably barely break the top 10 from Fear of the Dark, nevermind Maiden's career
It's clearly some sort of algorithm that pulls together songs with Love in the title playing it. Which also shows why some of the number of plays on streaming services should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Smither
Ancient Mariner
Wasting Love is actually very famous here in Brazil (and I'd say probably South America as a whole). The whole FOTD album is more famous here than on the rest of the world probably because it was around that time they started to come regularly to South America and it became easier to have access to their music as well. Every tribute band basically has to play Wasting Love on their concerts, it is considered as one of the classics. Wouldn't think it would make it a top 10 most listened song in the world but at least here I would believe so.
efekåseo_suomi
Ancient Mariner
Many bands uses streams as a way of deciding the setlist!
METALLICA Uses Spotify Data To Shape Local Setlists
More bands with a deep enough catalog should take this analytical approach.
metalinjection.net
Which ones? What platform?
Yeah, FOTD is not that bad. Be Quick, From Here, the title track and Afraid to Shoot Strangers are all classics. Should have done more FOTD tracks with Blaze in the 90's!
Yupp. With Alexander the Great in the current set, I think Wasting Love will take it's place as the song mostly requested to be in future sets.
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efekåseo_suomi
Ancient Mariner
I'm sure Maiden took streaming data into consideration when they put Hell on Earth as the encore opening. It has done really well on streaming services! Brave New World and Dance of Death were great albums, but when Maiden finally had a top ten album on the Billboard, they finally decided to perform a reunion album in it's entirety. I love Virtual XI and The X Factor, but I can see why they had to adjust the 1998 setlist troughout the tour. They simply put to much faith into the Blaze Bayley & especially the Virtual XI material. You have to understand your audience! Future Past tour could be the most thought through Maiden setlist of all time, it is a fantastic setlist!
Understanding which songs your audience prefer ≠ having a hologram instead of a band onstage
I disagree. Sure, it matters that there are some crowd pleasers in the mix, but there also has to be something organic to it, the band feeling that a certain song would really work well live even if it's not particularly popular on a streaming service. It's a live show. These guys aren't robots. They must experiment, they must be allowed to make a mistake or two, and must be able to discover what works and what doesn't. They must be allowed to say "fuck it, we don't want to play that again" even if the song has a billion Spotify plays. Fucking leave the algorithms out of it for once.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
That's probably an influence, but the band has always said that they play what they want first, regardless if the song is popular or not. If it was the other way round, Parchment would have been played this year, or more of the rarely played songs.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I don’t think using algorithms is bad in and of itself but I do agree that it shouldn’t be the sole basis for a setlist. They also have to be songs you want to play and that seem to work when you play them. Additionally, some songs can become more popular due to live performances, so you’ve got to take a chance with some of your material too.
I remember talking to a guy who said a band should never play more than two songs on an album tour because they aren’t classics yet. They can play more material from the album in the future when they’ve learned which songs have become popular. And I’m like… that defeats the whole purpose of an album tour! And how are they supposed to find out which songs work and are popular with the audience without playing them live and gauging the reactions??
Anyway, if Maiden really want to make their FOTD fans happy, it’s time to play “The Apparition”.
I remember talking to a guy who said a band should never play more than two songs on an album tour because they aren’t classics yet. They can play more material from the album in the future when they’ve learned which songs have become popular. And I’m like… that defeats the whole purpose of an album tour! And how are they supposed to find out which songs work and are popular with the audience without playing them live and gauging the reactions??
Anyway, if Maiden really want to make their FOTD fans happy, it’s time to play “The Apparition”.
MindRuler
Ancient Mariner
Exactly! If a band only plays 2 songs of their current album it´s pretty awkward. And it shows there´s not much confidence in the new material.
Keep on dreaming!Anyway, if Maiden really want to make their FOTD fans happy, it’s time to play “The Apparition”.
efekåseo_suomi
Ancient Mariner
You are talking about one of the most static bands in rock history. The opening nights of each tour is a event in itself because the setlist won't change troughout the tour.
I hold a contrary view when it comes to the notion that the success of Wasting Love is solely attributed to algorithms or playlists. While I've always been captivated by the intricate nature of albums like A Matter of Life and Death and The X Factor, I also recognize the reasons why Wasting Love occupies a prominent position on streaming services instead of Sign of the Cross. It is not popular because of any algorithms, it is popular simply because it is one of the most accessable songs in the Maiden catalouge, like it or not.
Moreover, I believe that the triumph of the Fear of the Dark album can be attributed to the events that transpired during its tour in Chile. The unforgettable performances of Afraid to Shoot Strangers and Fear of the Dark during that era cemented their status as staple tracks in Iron Maiden's repertoire throughout the 1990s. In fact, I am confident that Iron Maiden could successfully embark on a 90s-themed retrospective tour, centered around the iconic Fear of the Dark album. Such a tour would provide them with a compelling reason to reintroduce songs like From Here to Eternity, Be Quick or Be Dad, and Wasting Love back into their setlist, along with an array of other tracks from the 90s. The marketing with the Fear of the Dark name and the graphics could work!
If that was 100% true we would have more The X Factor material thanks to Steve. Or a full album performance of Senjutsu thanks to Bruce (who more or less decides what to play these days?).
Virtual XI Tour would be the proof of what youre saying!
Parchment isn't streamed more than any of the Senjutsu tracks in the current set is it?
I think someone a few pages back confused the statement "most popular tracks on streaming services" with "algorithms". I mean you couldn't write a whole script to find which song is the most popular one, you could just look at the raw data couldn't you?
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Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Well, that wasn't always the case, especially before 1999. And even after that we have exceptions. It's just not Maiden's thing.
80's tours:
1980 & 1981 - songs from the first 2 albums.
1982 - the added songs were covers.
1983 - static setlist.
1984/1985 - the ''main'' setlist was 13 songs, but they played 7 or 8 more songs during the tour.
1986/1987 - 2 songs were dropped, 1 song was added for some shows.
1988 - 6 more songs were played during the tour.
90's tours:
1990/1991 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
1992 - only 1 more song was played along with the 20-songs setlist.
1993 - only 2 more songs were rotated plus the old classics that returned for this year.
1995/1996 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
1998 - 6 more songs were played during the tour.
1999 - only 1 more song was played for the first few shows.
00's tours:
2000/2001/2002 - 4 more songs were played during the tour.
2003/2004 - 2 tours in one year with different setlists!
2005 - only 1 more song was played for a couple of shows.
2006/2007 - whole new album plus 5 song changes for the 2nd leg.
2008/2009 - 5 changes for the 2nd leg.
10's tours:
2010 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
2011 - no changes.
2012/2013/2014 - 3 changes for the 3rd leg.
2016/2017 - 2 changes for the 2nd leg.
2018/2019/2022 - 4 changes for the 3rd leg.
1980 & 1981 - songs from the first 2 albums.
1982 - the added songs were covers.
1983 - static setlist.
1984/1985 - the ''main'' setlist was 13 songs, but they played 7 or 8 more songs during the tour.
1986/1987 - 2 songs were dropped, 1 song was added for some shows.
1988 - 6 more songs were played during the tour.
90's tours:
1990/1991 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
1992 - only 1 more song was played along with the 20-songs setlist.
1993 - only 2 more songs were rotated plus the old classics that returned for this year.
1995/1996 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
1998 - 6 more songs were played during the tour.
1999 - only 1 more song was played for the first few shows.
00's tours:
2000/2001/2002 - 4 more songs were played during the tour.
2003/2004 - 2 tours in one year with different setlists!
2005 - only 1 more song was played for a couple of shows.
2006/2007 - whole new album plus 5 song changes for the 2nd leg.
2008/2009 - 5 changes for the 2nd leg.
10's tours:
2010 - only 2 more songs were played during the tour.
2011 - no changes.
2012/2013/2014 - 3 changes for the 3rd leg.
2016/2017 - 2 changes for the 2nd leg.
2018/2019/2022 - 4 changes for the 3rd leg.
I agree about Wasting Love and FOTD. A 90's era tour with FOTD as the centerpiece for the stage set would be great (wooden decor!) and ofc successful for Maiden, but the 90's aren't considered the band's best years, so they will need the staple classics too. That's why they didn't do such a tour after ME tour. They could do a hybrid tour with No Prayer or FOTD though.
Yeah, but TXF was recorded with a different vocalist (IM & Killers are much more popular and classic albums) and their original plans for the SJ tour changed quite a bit. Parchment is one of the most popular and liked songs from the album.
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srfc
Ancient Mariner
I was not aware of this, and obviously, this could account for a lot of the plays it gets, so maybe I am being too cynical blaming the algorithm.
I do remember that South American tour as MTV News or Most Wanted or one of the big MTV shows at the time ran a competition to win a trip to see Maiden in Buenos Aries, and they had Bruce on and all.
efekåseo_suomi
Ancient Mariner
Virtual XI had a fair amount of turnover in the set, but that was because they overloaded the set with Blaze Bayley material and had to find a balance mid tour. No Prayer on the Road uptil The X Factor featured relativly static sets... and the 80's didn't really see that many setlists changing mid tour?
Looking at streams it seems to be in the bottom half. Then again Time Machine is the least streamed one but still made the setlist..
Back in 2006 me and my friend who I went to Maiden gigs with were listening to the FOTD album and I remember telling him Wasting Love was a failed attempt at being commercal. Looking at the number on youtube it seems as if I was wrong..
They filled stadiums playing setlists with 50% Di'Anno songs in 2005, if Steve's or Bruce's personal preferences played a major part in choosing setlists I'm sure TXF would be more prominent in the setlist the past 30 years.
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efekåseo_suomi
Ancient Mariner
Here are all the songs Iron Maiden have never played live
Iron Maiden just played Alexander The Great live for the first time ever. But there are still 48 Maiden songs that have never been given an airing
www.loudersound.com
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Also Foro did this quite admirable job here
though since he's gone AWOL, it probably isn't updated for the last tour or so.
Iron Maiden songs – a rough overview of their “live history”
(See also Iron Maiden members - a rough overview of their "live history" and Judas Priest: songs that were never played live) Iron Maiden songs – a rough overview of their “live history” Introduction & dedication I decided to make a “played live – overview” of all Maiden songs, basically...
forum.maidenfans.com
though since he's gone AWOL, it probably isn't updated for the last tour or so.
NavigatorOfTheClouds
Trooper
I think Sun and Steel has a chance. There we're rumours it was rehearsed?
Only the Good die young could be a good possibility and could well?
Deja Vu: Bruce kind of joked with it, teased it when introducing The Time Machine. Could be an option for the second leg of the tour as a fast , easy song with a good chorus. Due to its lenght it could create space for Hallowed/Number as additional classic if it replaces Heaven Can Wait for example?
Darkest Hour/ Parchment: could possibly replace The Time Machine/ Death of the Celts next year?
Only the Good die young could be a good possibility and could well?
Deja Vu: Bruce kind of joked with it, teased it when introducing The Time Machine. Could be an option for the second leg of the tour as a fast , easy song with a good chorus. Due to its lenght it could create space for Hallowed/Number as additional classic if it replaces Heaven Can Wait for example?
Darkest Hour/ Parchment: could possibly replace The Time Machine/ Death of the Celts next year?
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Yeah, although there are some difficult songs, especially the longer stuff. Talisman and Book Of Souls are perfect examples. Or maybe more 90's songs? Nicko seems to be good with a faster tempo song (*it should not be at the end of the set), but songs with more drum fills like Rime, Paschendale or Deja-Vu - he will just simplify them. The songs are challenging for the whole band, but mostly for the drummer.
Btw, with just one tour they can tick off the ''deep cuts/rarely played songs/never played live before'':
15 songs setlist (not in order):
Phantom/Rime
Killers/Prodigal Son
Still Life/Die With Your Boots On
Sun And Steel
To Tame A Land
Sea Of Madness/Clairvoyant
Infinite Dreams
Only The Good Die Young
Tailgunner/No Prayer For The Dying
Be Quick Or Be Dead/Wasting Love
Lord Of The Flies/Futureal
Ghost Of The Navigator/Brave New World/Mirrors/Silent Planet
Rainmaker/No More Lies/Dance Of Death
Benjamin Breeg/Coming Home/Death Or Glory
I tried to list the most realistic ones. Plus ofc Trooper/Number, Fear and Iron Maiden -> the formula for the current tour.
Phantom/Rime
Killers/Prodigal Son
Still Life/Die With Your Boots On
Sun And Steel
To Tame A Land
Sea Of Madness/Clairvoyant
Infinite Dreams
Only The Good Die Young
Tailgunner/No Prayer For The Dying
Be Quick Or Be Dead/Wasting Love
Lord Of The Flies/Futureal
Ghost Of The Navigator/Brave New World/Mirrors/Silent Planet
Rainmaker/No More Lies/Dance Of Death
Benjamin Breeg/Coming Home/Death Or Glory
I tried to list the most realistic ones. Plus ofc Trooper/Number, Fear and Iron Maiden -> the formula for the current tour.
Nicko's 2 favorite songs from the album - and they don't play either of them!