But they want to keep the right of travel for British citizens to Europe, they want to keep their bank accounts in Europe, they want to keep their ability to export British goods to the EU.
UK Politics
- Thread starter CriedWhenBrucieLeft
- Start date
They hope that's what the EU wants and can't do without. Actually, come to think of it, they don't especially care. Achieving the goal of delivering on vague promises to 'take back control' and stop sending OUR money to THEM is at the forefront of this entire charade. It's a weird blend of outdated backbench economics and politics, and patriotic populism. I'm not remotely confident there's any overall plan behind the movement.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Watching the deluded ramblings of the founder of Phones 4 U last night on BBC Newsnight clearly highlighted the amount of hubris of some leave supporters.
In the words of one of the best metal bands of all time, you have another thing coming...
It would be laughable if it weren't for the amount of economic damage this historic own goal is going to cause to the (not so) United Kingdom.
Current status is that British people will be barred from entering the EU from 1 January because the UK will be treated like every other country in the world from then on. And every other country in the world is on the Covid restrictions list until it is deemed safe. Which I suppose will take a while.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Does that apply to those of us with dual citizenship (i.e. is the rule based on residence or nationality)?
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Phones 4 U was a company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phones_4u
John Caudwell was one of the founders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caudwell
He is a Tory-supporting billionaire Brexiteer. To his credit, he donates a lot of money to worthy causes, like the NSPCC.
No, EU citizens living in the UK and Brits in the EU are not supposed to be affected.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Thanks. Great news for my family if that is the case then.
I cannot help but find quite ironic than from 1st January I am going to have more rights than the xenophobic mob - part of the leave voters, but obviously not all of them - who wanted to kick foreigners out of the country.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
This fishing business is quite something. The Dutch have fished their for 400 years... especially herring is caught in the UK area (economic zone). That would be a huge thing if that area (which is very big) would be out of the question.
"Without a brexit agreement, European fishing waters will become much smaller.
The brexit negotiations are in a final stage, but without an agreement, the negotiators are heading for a hard brexit. Van Balsfoort: ‘Then we will have too many fishermen for just a few fishing grounds, which will inevitably lead to quarrels between countries that will renationalise. This will put an end to the European fisheries policy and will be disastrous for the Dutch fishing industry. After all, the Netherlands has a large fleet and only little water.’
Dutch fishermen catch almost everything outside of Dutch fishing waters. More than 45 per cent of “Dutch” fish are caught in British waters. In the case of herring, this even amounts to almost 90 per cent."
www.swzmaritime.nl
"Without a brexit agreement, European fishing waters will become much smaller.
The brexit negotiations are in a final stage, but without an agreement, the negotiators are heading for a hard brexit. Van Balsfoort: ‘Then we will have too many fishermen for just a few fishing grounds, which will inevitably lead to quarrels between countries that will renationalise. This will put an end to the European fisheries policy and will be disastrous for the Dutch fishing industry. After all, the Netherlands has a large fleet and only little water.’
Dutch fishermen catch almost everything outside of Dutch fishing waters. More than 45 per cent of “Dutch” fish are caught in British waters. In the case of herring, this even amounts to almost 90 per cent."
‘Hard brexit is the end of Dutch fishing industry’ | SWZ|Maritime
www.swzmaritime.nl
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
This fishing business is quite something. The Dutch have fished their for 400 years... especially herring is caught in the UK area (economic zone). That would be a huge thing if that area (which is very big) would be out of the question.
‘Hard brexit is the end of Dutch fishing industry’ | SWZ|Maritime
The whole fishing thing is use to inflame nationalist feelings in a somewhat bizarre way. I am all for supporting fishing communities and I buy locally sourced fish as much as I can, but the other day I read that the fishing industry is worth 0.12% of the UK economy!
Perhaps the Dutch and French fishing industries are worth more than that though.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
What is even more weird, the UK is heavily depending on the Dutch catch for their fish and chips as well!
"But no matter how British fish and chips, for the fish that is used, the British depend on Dutch fishermen. “What British fishermen catch, they don’t eat and what they eat they don’t catch*,” says Geert Meun of the association of cutter fishermen VisNed. “Fish and chips mainly go for cod, which they do not catch there themselves. British fishermen mainly catch Norwegian lobster, flatfish, blue mackerel, all for export. They depend on Dutch fishermen for what they eat themselves, who do catch cod."
www.en24news.com
* This makes it absurd to close the areas for foreigners. Every nation has different expertise (and tradition), it seems so unnecessary to change that so radically. And the area is big...
"But no matter how British fish and chips, for the fish that is used, the British depend on Dutch fishermen. “What British fishermen catch, they don’t eat and what they eat they don’t catch*,” says Geert Meun of the association of cutter fishermen VisNed. “Fish and chips mainly go for cod, which they do not catch there themselves. British fishermen mainly catch Norwegian lobster, flatfish, blue mackerel, all for export. They depend on Dutch fishermen for what they eat themselves, who do catch cod."
error | EN24 News
www.en24news.com
* This makes it absurd to close the areas for foreigners. Every nation has different expertise (and tradition), it seems so unnecessary to change that so radically. And the area is big...
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Realistically, fishing communities barely exist in the UK. It's nothing more than a PR stunt or gesture, like 'support our farmers', 'save our countryside' etc.
The most traditional farming and fishing took a nosedive a long time ago, the North Sea in particular is over-fished and fish stocks have dwindled - bigger fishing boats and more efficient methods played a part in that. Countryside villages and the pretty coastal villages were bought up as second homes, holiday homes or investments years ago, so most of the people who made their money from traditional agriculture or fishing couldn't possibly afford to live there now anyway.
Like Foro says, fish like cod, haddock and (farmed) salmon are far more in demand in the UK than what fisherman are actually catching. Much of the rest is sold in the EU. In farming, it's not traditional wheat crops and sheep farming that make money. Modern consumer demand is for vast quantities of fruit and veg, produced whatever the season. And that means massive greenhouses. And workers shipped in seasonally for that, usually billeted in caravans.
But there's no point asking the logic behind any aspect of Brexit, because I don't think there was any, at least not among the leading campaigners.
The most traditional farming and fishing took a nosedive a long time ago, the North Sea in particular is over-fished and fish stocks have dwindled - bigger fishing boats and more efficient methods played a part in that. Countryside villages and the pretty coastal villages were bought up as second homes, holiday homes or investments years ago, so most of the people who made their money from traditional agriculture or fishing couldn't possibly afford to live there now anyway.
Like Foro says, fish like cod, haddock and (farmed) salmon are far more in demand in the UK than what fisherman are actually catching. Much of the rest is sold in the EU. In farming, it's not traditional wheat crops and sheep farming that make money. Modern consumer demand is for vast quantities of fruit and veg, produced whatever the season. And that means massive greenhouses. And workers shipped in seasonally for that, usually billeted in caravans.
But there's no point asking the logic behind any aspect of Brexit, because I don't think there was any, at least not among the leading campaigners.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
What is even more weird, the UK is heavily depending on the Dutch catch for their fish and chips as well!
"But no matter how British fish and chips, for the fish that is used, the British depend on Dutch fishermen. “What British fishermen catch, they don’t eat and what they eat they don’t catch*,” says Geert Meun of the association of cutter fishermen VisNed. “Fish and chips mainly go for cod, which they do not catch there themselves. British fishermen mainly catch Norwegian lobster, flatfish, blue mackerel, all for export. They depend on Dutch fishermen for what they eat themselves, who do catch cod."
error | EN24 News
* This makes it absurd to close the areas for foreigners. Every nation has different expertise (and tradition), it seems so unnecessary to change that so radically. And the area is big...
Thankfully I had my cod & chips today!
By the look of things, on 2nd January I will have to buy a (British-caught) lobster and shove it up Boris Johnson's arse, the worst Prime Minister we've had since, at least, the late 1930s.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
It was just a delusion sold by upper class snake oil salesmen, led by a narcissist who is a pathological liar, who seized the opportunity presented by the huge resentment existing in the British public for different reasons, but exacerbated by the brutal austerity policies imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition of Cameron and Clegg.
I believe that, had the referendum been called at any other time than after 6 years of very painful austerity, the results would have probably been quite different.
I'm not so sure. The us and them mentality has been bubbling under for years. People decided that participation in mainstream politics wasn't worth it around the time Blair was in power. It's not helped by social media and completely swallowing American television too.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
You make a very valid point. The failings of Tony Blair levelling up the UK started brewing resentment in traditional Labour voters who saw their traditional livelihoods being affected by a rate of change they could not follow/could not adapt too/felt they had not been asked to agree with. However, I feel that the brutal austerity policies of the Tory-Lib Dem coalition is what tipped the balance for the Brexit cause. That, together with social media and the utterly vile tabloids.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Here's an interesting read. It is Brexit-related, but can also go in the European politics thread.
www.theguardian.com
For Europe, losing Britain is bad. Keeping Hungary and Poland could be worse | Timothy Garton Ash
The populists of Budapest and Warsaw are blackmailing the EU over the rule of law. They cannot be allowed to succeed, says the historian Timothy Garton Ash
www.theguardian.com
Some sort of trade deal appears to be imminent. Thank f***. There might be a hardcore of leavers out there who want to march off sticking two fingers up at the EU, and won't like any concessions being made whatsoever, but there still had to be agreements of some sort in place. Doing it country by country across Europe would not be fun, and a good many of those countries will stand by common policy anyway, being EU member states.
I wonder if seeing first hand what happens when trucks can't merrily breeze into France in droves has had a hand in this.
I wonder if seeing first hand what happens when trucks can't merrily breeze into France in droves has had a hand in this.
