UK Politics

bearfan said:
I think the issue with a national identity is it cannot be forced. Pre-World War II, I think most Americans related to their state as much as being an American, but WWII, the Cold War, and easier transportation across the US, and population migration is what got us thinking Americans first state second. But that all happened pretty much organically. The EU seems to be trying to force an identity and not shockingly there has been a ton of backlash.
Click to expand...

As I noted, there is also a lot of it happening organically. The backlash is for the most part people projecting their diffuse frustrations with various aspects of their lives on the EU and a perceived identity policy. At the same time, there are people voluntarily and happily going from one EU country to another to study and work, and love it.
 
Black Wizard said:
A UKIP MEP told the Parliament that the EU has "done what Philip of Spain, Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm and Hitler couldn't do". You have brought Britain to its knees without firing a single shot."
Click to expand...
Yeah, Britain would be chugging along just fine without the UKIP-types.
 
LooseCannon said:
I agree that the process needs to happen organically, hence why I keep saying it can take a long time.
Click to expand...

Exactly ... and that is why there are really 2 questions

1) Should it happen
2) How it is being implemented ... and my guess is that at least a decent percentage of anti-EU sentiment is directed at this.

... and as I have mentioned here before, the EU needs to take a look at itself as a governing body and see what they need to change rather than just chalk up anti-EU sentiment as racists, nationalists, etc etc etc.
 
Perun said:
As I noted, there is also a lot of it happening organically. The backlash is for the most part people projecting their diffuse frustrations with various aspects of their lives on the EU and a perceived identity policy. At the same time, there are people voluntarily and happily going from one EU country to another to study and work, and love it.
Click to expand...

One could argue that they represent a very small minority of EU citizens.
 
GhostofCain said:
One could argue that they represent a very small minority of EU citizens.
Click to expand...

One would need statistics to make such an argument.

EDIT: But even so, so what? It shows that it can happen. That's all I'm really saying.
 
Perun said:
EDIT: But even so, so what? It shows that it can happen. That's all I'm really saying.
Click to expand...

I think it can and probably will happen over time, I do think though that given the vastly different histories of many of the countries in the EU up to the 1990s, it it (at the government level) being forced along at too quick a pace and that is where the backlash is coming from. All the real threats to the EU are internal and pushing too fast and too much backlash is what could derail it.

All I am really saying is the EU needs to look seriously at why this is happening and enact some reforms to address those concerns. I would guess the most staunch EU supporters can see there is room for improvement.
 
I'll be honest, I'm not sure if it's true that there is a heavy push from the EU for identity assimilation. From what I can see, it's more of a conspiracy theory from the far right.
 
Perun said:
One would need statistics to make such an argument.

EDIT: But even so, so what? It shows that it can happen. That's all I'm really saying.
Click to expand...

So what?? :confused: The numbers of EU citizens that go and study in other countries is fairly small compared to the total population of the EU (over 3 million in the 30+ years of the Erasmus programme).

You can find more detailed statistics here:

https://ec.europa.eu/programmes/erasmus-plus/about/statistics_en
 
GhostofCain said:
So what?? :confused: The numbers of EU citizens that go and study in other countries is fairly small compared to the total population of the EU (over 3 million in the 30+ years of the Erasmus programme).
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with my point? My point is, there are people who live European unity by choice. I never said they are a majority; I only pointed out that these people exist, and might become more in the future.
Moreover, not everyone who hasn't participated in Erasmus is against European integration.
 
Perun said:
What does that have to do with my point? My point is, there are people who live European unity by choice. I never said they are a majority; I only pointed out that these people exist, and might become more in the future.
Click to expand...

You asked for statistics and I gave you some...

Perun said:
Moreover, not everyone who hasn't participated in Erasmus is against European integration.
Click to expand...

Of course. I guess that not everyone who has participated in Erasmus is in favour of greater European integration either. ;)
 
GhostofCain said:
You asked for statistics and I gave you some...
Click to expand...

True, but I said right away that they are not terribly relevant to my point.

GhostofCain said:
Of course. I guess that not everyone who has participated in Erasmus is in favour of greater European integration either. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm just saying, among the people I know, there's not one person I know of who took part in Erasmus, and I know maybe two or three people who are really opposed to the European Union (meaning, opposed enough for a regular Facebook meltdown, but not opposed enough to actually go out and do anything).
 
Perun said:
True, but I said right away that they are not terribly relevant to my point.



I'm just saying, among the people I know, there's not one person I know of who took part in Erasmus, and I know maybe two or three people who are really opposed to the European Union (meaning, opposed enough for a regular Facebook meltdown, but not opposed enough to actually go out and do anything).
Click to expand...
There are different levels of opposition to the European Union. One can be in favour of membership of the single market and participation in schemes like the European Arrest Warrant, but be opposed to federalization.
 
Black Wizard said:
There are different levels of opposition to the European Union. One can be in favour of membership of the single market and participation in schemes like the European Arrest Warrant, but be opposed to federalization.
Click to expand...

Agreed. None of this speaks against my original point though, that there are people who like European integration without being forced to like it by a grand EU policy.
 
MPs just voted on whether they should have another round of votes on alternative Brexit plans.

Aye: 310
No: 310

It was a fucking tie. :D That's the first time in 39 years there's been a tie. In this case the Speaker has the casting vote so he gave it to the No side which means there will not be another round of indicative votes - I think.
 
Government: We don't want to be limited by Parliament. We want to "seek an extention in our own way".
Parliament: Fuck you. The extension date must be put to MPs.

The Government is just getting humped in vote after vote of importance. Tonight delivered another defeat, the second largest defeat in modern times.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top