UK Politics

Honestly, the whole Brexit shenanigans only proves that direct democracy and referenda are a really bad idea in general.

Also, I'm really curious about how this will end.
 
Brigantium said:
At the end of the day, like GoC says, it was a vote, and trying to put the brakes on that just because the losing side believes it knows best, isn't democratic.
Populist, reactionary, anti-establishment, anti-everything sentiment, wrapped up in a big disenfranchised bundle of discontent, has been bubbling under for a long time, and this one issue of EU membership became the sharp focus for that, as a rare chance for voters to directly affect policy.
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People also seem to forget that the people who voted for Brexit came from all sides of the political spectrum: left, centre-left, centre, centre-right, right...
 
Brigantium said:
At the end of the day, like GoC says, it was a vote, and trying to put the brakes on that just because the losing side* believes it knows best, isn't democratic.
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It is not undemocratic to reconsider wrong, misled decisions.

*do not ignore the fact that people on the "winning" side have changed their minds as well.
Brigantium said:
Populist, reactionary, anti-establishment, anti-everything sentiment, wrapped up in a big disenfranchised bundle of discontent, has been bubbling under for a long time, and this one issue of EU membership became the sharp focus for that, as a rare chance for voters to directly affect policy.
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Great! Looking forward to have these sentiments leading your nation (not). Everything better than a 2nd referendum, isn't it?
 
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These are the options:

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The deal won't be passed by Parliament. The EU won't renegotiate. Jezza will certainly call for a vote of no confidence in the government, but I don't think the Hard Brexit Tories will vote against the government and the DUP might not either. I wonder what Theresa has up her sleeve.
 
Won't a new general election in practice mean a no deal Brexit anyway? Surely there's no way an election can be held, a new government established and a new Brexit deal presented to Parliament before March 29th?
 
Even if Corbyn does table a motion of NC, it certainly won't get passed. No Tory will actually vote for the downfall of the government, and the DUP have stated they won't vote for it. I think Nigel Dodds said that they don't want to see a collapse of the government, but rather the deal voted down.

If every single Labour MP voted in favour of a NC motion, along with the SNP, and the Lib Dems. It still doesn't give them a majority, unless there are some rebel Tory MPs.

Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Won't a new general election in practice mean a no deal Brexit anyway? Surely there's no way an election can be held, a new government established and a new Brexit deal presented to Parliament before March 29th?
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There is talks of Article 50 being extended, I know the EU are planning for it to be extended until July at the earliest. So one can assume if there is a new government, they can negotiate a new deal. But what difference will 4 months make, honestly?
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Won't a new general election in practice mean a no deal Brexit anyway? Surely there's no way an election can be held, a new government established and a new Brexit deal presented to Parliament before March 29th?
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It's possible to delay Brexit if all the other EU members agree as part of article 50. I don't know how long for though.
 
The only real way that a general election changes Brexit is if the parties take diametrically opposed stances on whether or not Brexit should be allowed to occur. In that situation, it would act as a second referendum by default.

Similarly, if it ends up as Hard Brexit vs. Negotiated Brexit, the election would serve as a de facto referendum on that.
 
Tomorrow another interesting day. May did not resign, there is no plan B.

How can so many MP's change their opinions?
 
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I do not think a much better deal CAN be negotiated. So:

Brexit is not possible. Not with a deal at least. Without a deal is even more unbelievable.
 
Huge defeat for the government. The opposition leaders have tabled a motion of no confidence in the government which will be debated and voted on tomorrow. I doubt the government will lose as none of the Conservative MPs will vote for no confidence.
 
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