Tournament of Instrumentals (r1): 65 vs 66 + 67 vs 68

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

Fucking hell, I'm like the only guy giving any consistently lengthy explanation to my choices here; & you are splitting hairs over a few words.

*scratches back of head* Hang on. You listened more often to a song, thus it is your favourite? Is that all the reasoning there is behind your vote?

No. Where exactly did I say this? I can see where you're coming from, but "Hence my vote" was in reference to all of what I'd previously said. Why would it have applied to that final sentence only?

To be clear(er):

...with the obvious qualification that I've only listened to Black Market twice (ever) & having listened to Summer Song many times before. Maybe if I listened to Black Market more times & it had time to grow on me (i.e. it had been given the same amount of listens as Summer Song) then my view would be otherwise.

Forget the "hence my vote" bit.

If yes, that would rule out discovering new music which in theory could be more appealing than a song you've heard before. Like this, can you listen to the songs with your volume on zero since for you it's only about quantity of listening, not about anything else?

I'm not entirely sure, beyond being mischievous, what point you're making here.

My comment regarding how little I'd listened to Black Market (besides a statement of fact), was meant to be a nod-of-the-head to the point Flash (& others, including myself) have made, or alluded to; namely that slow-growers &/or slower songs &/or progressive songs, etc --are going to struggle here (& have), if people have never hear them before, & have only heard them once. You can't get away from the fact that songs that are instantly accessible &/or listenable to are always going to be favoured over "difficult" songs that people haven't heard before. Have you've never got tired of an album/song that was initially really listenable to & vice versa? I can't turn back time to the first time I heard Summer Song. And I can't judge Black Market after 10-20 listens, unless I listen to it that many times over the next couple of years, & then get back to you. Viewing songs/albums through the prism of time & how much I've listened to them is unavoidable, for me.

 

[Forostar]

Fucking hell, I'm like the only guy giving any consistently lengthy explanation to my choices here; & you are splitting hairs over a few words.

I appreciate your explanations but this time (one of the few times, if not only time) in my interpretation the explanation of the second pair did not support the vote, as Flash stated. No wonder I had to look at the "hence my vote" which I thought served as a further explanation.

Viewing songs/albums through the prism of time & how much I've listened to them is unavoidable, for me.

That's exactly something I hoped people would try to erase when playing this game. I am not blaming you if you can't help it. But I am still curious about how this works.

I don't think (or I don't hope!) people vote for the Satch song because they heard it more often. I just hope they vote because they find it better.

EDIT:

And I can't judge Black Market after 10-20 listens, unless I listen to it that many times over the next couple of years, & then get back to you.

I have seen you voting for songs you haven't heard before. Do new songs only have a chance if their opponents are also new to you?
You know Run to the Hills for ages right? Will that song always win from a new song (in a different game, because RTTH is not an instrumental), even if you are pleasantly surprised by lots of things in the new song? Isn't it really hard then to appreciate new music?

What about your love for Buckethead? The dude releases new stuff all the time. Don't you ever fall in love with a new song after the first listening session?

Fucking hell

Sorry, hope this post won't make you more angry! There's a chance I just don't understand what you mean, or I don't see how it is related to the Black Market vs Summer Song battle.

 

[Crimson Idol]

Fucking hell, I'm like the only guy giving any consistently lengthy explanation to my choices here; & you are splitting hairs over a few words.

That just means everyone else has already learnt this happens and given up on explaining

 

[The Flash]

Fucking hell, I'm like the only guy giving any consistently lengthy explanation to my choices here; & you are splitting hairs over a few words.

That comes with the territory. If you say something, you're going to be held accountable for it. It's quite sad that many people have given up on explaining stuff here simply because they can't tolerate the focused discussions regarding them.

To be clear, I didn't have the same problem Foro had with your post, I know "familiarity" wasn't the only criteria for you.

 

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

I appreciate your explanations but this time (one of the few times, if not only time) in my interpretation the explanation of the second pair did not support the vote, as Flash stated. No wonder I had to look at the "hence my vote" which I thought served as a further explanation.

Okay, fair enough. You know now though!

That's exactly something I hoped people would try to erase when playing this game. I am not blaming you if you can't help it. But I am still curious about how this works.

You're clearly under the impression that you are free from this bias; when, in reality, I think you're as (sub)consciously influenced by this as everyone else.

I don't think (or I don't hope!) people vote for the Satch song because they heard it more often. I just hope they vote because they find it better.

Agreed. I don't want people to go into voting having already made up their mind either.

I have seen you voting for songs you haven't heard before. Do new songs only have a chance if their opponents are also new to you?
You know Run to the Hills for ages right? Will that song always win from a new song (in a different game, because RTTH is not an instrumental), even if you are pleasantly surprised by lots of things in the new song? Wow, it must be really hard then to appreciate new music.

Think about what you're saying.

In this case, this is about me already having a (within reason) fully formed, fully developed opinion of Summer Song; viewed through the prism of many listens, & over a fairly lengthy exposure. I can not only think about now, but I can remember the first couple of times I heard it. With Black Market I'm right at zero point; I've just listened to it (quite literally) for the first time through this game. So it's not about thinking songs I'm familiar with are always going to win; it's, to me, about comparing chalk & cheese. It's about comparing something newly encountered vs. something long in the mind. The comparison is an unfair one; to both songs in this case. I can't "erase" all the baggage that comes with, in this case, Summer Song. I can't just blank it out, sorry. And I genuinely don't think you can either (--in respect to some example that's applicable to you). Plus, my view of Summer Song may have been overwhelmingly negative; but it would still have been a well rounded & well formed opinion. You're asking me to compare this to a snap judgement of Black Market. Sorry, I don't attach (here or in life generally) much merit (or perhaps as much merit) to short-lived, instantaneous views; my own or anyone else's. I don't have a massive problem with them, I just don't think they're as well informed as things you've thought about more. The very fact that you've pointed out newly encountered songs that I have voted for goes to show you that I obviously had a pretty low opinion of the other track, or as you point out, the other track was also new to me. I can't remember, to be honest; you'd have to throw me a couple of examples!

What about your love for Buckethead? The dude releases new stuff all the time. Don't you ever fall in love with a new song after the first listening session?

Well, since everything of his is new to me, & I clearly love some of his stuff after the first listening --yes! But does this mean that I think this opinion is as well informed as my opinion of Maiden? No. Only time will tell whether I view Buckethead's music in the long-term as up there with, for example, Maiden.

I appreciate what you're alluding to: why can't you make a non-biased judgement on the merits of two pieces of music, regardless of your own personal acquaintance with one of them? Well, I'm struggling...

There's a chance I just don't understand what you mean, or I don't see how it is related to the Black Market vs Summer Song battle.

It relates more broadly to all of these head-to-heads, with this pairing only being one example.

Sorry, hope this post won't make you more angry!

Me, angry?

EDIT: Incidentally, if you actually read my original comment on Summer Song, there is no explanation of why I voted for Satriani. So it's not really that the explanation didn't make sense; there just wasn't one. A simple "do you want to maybe explain that vote, Cried" might have been a more appropriate response!

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

65 and 68.

I found 65 to be far more interesting than 66, which sounds like it might be a nice intro to a bigger, better song. It's nice to hear something quite different, a bolero, as Latin music doesn't often cross over into the rock realm.

68 is one of Satch's most famous songs, again, but still quite amazing. It's a little upbeat and major-key for my taste, but I love it all the same. Honestly, I'm sorry to whoever suggested all of these Weather Report songs, but they are without a doubt my least favorite choices in the entire competition thus far. Every time I see a new one, I hope I'll like it...but it just sounds like repetitive elevator music to me.

However, in this topic (which is admittedly only 2 days old) I noticed that the involvement is about 50% of what I have seen in the last couple of rounds. I will wait a few more extra days with opening the next to make it easier for the 'hardcore' players who've been voting very steadily, but who haven't voted in this one yet, to catch up.

I appreciate that you keep the rounds open for so long, as I don't always make it into these matches within the first couple days. Thanks for hosting, Foro. This is a ridiculous undertaking.

Lurker is one of his more conventionally structured songs which, in reality, isn't really that representative of his writing/music.

That's a shame, as I found that song's style greatly intriguing. If the rest of Buckethead's music is more experimental, I'm not sure I'll look him up.

 

[Cornfed Hick]

Last one.

What is predictable? Presumably the more well known tracks will get more votes, and the non-metal entries seem to have a steeper hill to climb. Anything else you've noticed? I'm genuinely curious -- you obviously are paying more attention to the voting patterns than I am. I tend to vote, and then not follow up to see who "advanced."

As for analysis/reasoning behind my votes, I'll state for the record up front that there isn't any. Purely based on first impressions -- do I like it? That said, if I already am familiar with the song and know that I like it, I have no doubt I am biased in favor of it.

@Forostar - I'll try to participate, but I am traveling a lot, so my participation on this forum has lately been in short bursts several days apart.

 

[The Flash]

What is predictable? Presumably the more well known tracks will get more votes, and the non-metal entries seem to have a steeper hill to climb. Anything else you've noticed?

Adding to the "non-metal" issue, softer/calmer songs seem to do much worse than more fired up/powerful songs. I haven't been surprised at any outcome so far (vote differencials in some matchups did surprise me but it was always easy to guess the winner of any matchup).

Honestly, I'm sorry to whoever suggested all of these Weather Report songs, but they are without a doubt my least favorite choices in the entire competition thus far. Every time I see a new one, I hope I'll like it...but it just sounds like repetitive elevator music to me.

I suggested those. No need to be sorry, jazz fusion isn't everyone's cup of tea. Most of my suggestions had no shot at advancing in this game, my point was to help other people on the forum get familiar with different genres. If it wasn't for my entries, this game would be incredibly metal dominant and it wouldn't do justice to the format of the game (every genre allowed). I had 33 suggestions, involving progressive rock, jazz fusion, jazz, surf rock, classical, electronic, post rock and folk.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

I suggested those. No need to be sorry, jazz fusion isn't everyone's cup of tea. Most of my suggestions had no shot at advancing in this game, my point was to help other people on the forum get familiar with different genres. If it wasn't for my entries, this game would be incredibly metal dominant and it wouldn't do justice to the format of the game (every genre allowed). I had 33 suggestions, involving progressive rock, jazz fusion, jazz, surf rock, classical, electronic, post rock and folk.

It's great to have diversity, so thanks for your suggestions. Jazz and jazz fusion are really not my thing, though. I'm looking forward to hearing some of the classical and folk you've suggested!

 

[Forostar]

I can imagine you are not a fan of Weather Report but I wouldn't diss off the whole genre. Weather Report has is own style with its own way of steady groovy/funky beats which are quite unchanging. It's especially the top layer (keys/horns) that can be interesting, but as a whole, I think that there are other bands that are more dynamic.

Take Mahavishnu Orchestra. There is still one of there songs coming up and that one features the first ever use of double bass drums in rock (related) music. Also there is guitar playing, violin and the whole thing is imo just more adventurous. In any case it is different. At some point, this band was bigger than The Eagles. Still, both bands were icons in the jazz/fusion genre.

 

[Brigantium]

@Brigantium

*Slaps own wrist*

 

[Brigantium]

65 - atmospheric, quite nice. 66 - more fun. 67 - Weather Report (sorry!) 68 - Much Satchness, wow. Votes go with 66 and 68.