Tiananmen Square, 20 years later

Quetzalcoatlus said:
Don't be confused; they are as Turkish as the Flemish are Dutch, or the Quebecois are French,
and -in fact- much less than that, since they've been separated for many many centuries

So the right word is Turkic and not Turkish.
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Argh, and that's exactly why I hate Turkology. It's a frigging mess. It's the science that tells you that Middle-Kiptchak is a dialect of Karakhanido-Altaic. And what's worse, everybody picks their favourite Turkic tribe and tries to point out that they are the navel of creation.
So far, I have not been able to find a reliable source on Turkic history that is not a piece of propaganda that portrays the entire history of Central Asia as a glorious journey from climax to climax of Turkic civilisation. As for today, the modern Turks believe that they are the inherits of everything any Turkic tribe ever did, and claim that they are responsible for everything from Attila the Hun to Genghis Khan. This gross distortion of history is called Pan-Turkism, and it is no better than Pan-Arabism, Pan-Iranism or Pan-Germanism.

In a way it is; Altai Mountains is the birth place of all Turkic people, and Xingjiang is the first (I believe) Turkic Empire ever
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Not even remotely. From the top of my head, I can think of the Gok-Turk empire (5th century AD) around modern Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan and the Khazars (7th century) around the Caspian Sea, and there is a debate between Turkologists and non-Turkologists (of course) whether Attila the Hun was of Turkic ethnicity or not.
 
Perun said:
Argh, and that's exactly why I hate Turkology. It's a frigging mess. It's the science that tells you that Middle-Kiptchak is a dialect of Karakhanido-Altaic. And what's worse, everybody picks their favourite Turkic tribe and tries to point out that they are the navel of creation.
So far, I have not been able to find a reliable source on Turkic history that is not a piece of propaganda that portrays the entire history of Central Asia as a glorious journey from climax to climax of Turkic civilisation. As for today, the modern Turks believe that they are the inherits of everything any Turkic tribe ever did, and claim that they are responsible for everything from Attila the Hun to Genghis Khan. This gross distortion of history is called Pan-Turkism, and it is no better than Pan-Arabism, Pan-Iranism or Pan-Germanism.
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As far as I know, Pan-Turkism (contrary to Pan-Germanism maybe) has no negative sentiments towards other races.

Perun said:
Not even remotely. From the top of my head, I can think of the Gok-Turk empire (5th century AD) around modern Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan and the Khazars (7th century) around the Caspian Sea, and there is a debate between Turkologists and non-Turkologists (of course) whether Attila the Hun was of Turkic ethnicity or not.
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Gok Turk Empire was in an enormous extending that was including Altai Mountains.
I’m not that sure about my previous statement, but everywhere is mentioned that Altai is the Turkic birth land, so…
 
Quetzalcoatlus said:
As far as I know, Pan-Turkism (contrary to Pan-Germanism maybe) has no negative sentiments towards other races.
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Hmm, we're heading into discutable territory now.

How do you define: Pan-Germanism and what has it to do with races in your point of view?

How do you define: Pan-Turkism and how do you do that in relation to the genocide of the Armenians, and the non-acceptance of Kurdish culture? The Kurds and the Armenians are no race, but there was (and still is?) negative sentiment.
 
Pan-Ethnicism is racist, because it usually denies other ethnicities what is theirs.
 
To clarify better : While the theory of Nazis used to describe a superior race (which mean that the other races are inferior)
as far as I know the supporters of Pan-Turkism they are not stating such a thing; they dream of a union
of all Turkic nations, that's what I got after extended discussions in Paris
 
:blink: When ?? I'm not aware of any attempt
-in fact the only 'attempt' is recent, when Istanbul had persuaded some Turkic states
to change their Arabic alphabet into Latin -the worst is that they accepted -kind of silly in my opinion
 
Ah yes. For one reason Turkey seems to feel like the mother land, but there is nothing to justify that.
Personally, I feel that if is to be a mother land among Turkic lands this would be Xingjiang...
 
The Altai mountains are far from Kashgar though.

And without wanting to Godwin this again, in what way does a Greater Turkey differ from a Greater Germany?
 
If I may jump to the present, the biggest difference is that Germany is the only country that doesn't shovel its past under the carpet.

In Russia, China, Japan and Turkey it still goes like this:
:halo: :smartarse: :notworthy: :applause: :blueangel: :nonono: :ahhh:
 
Perun said:
The Altai mountains are far from Kashgar though.
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...and ? Part of them is in Xinjiang

...The Altai Mountains (Russian: Алтай Altay; Mongolian: Алтай; Chinese: 阿尔泰山脉,) are a mountain range in central Asia, where Russia, China, Mongolia and Kazakhstan come together...

source

map_of_Altai.jpg


xinjiang.jpg


Perun said:
And without wanting to Godwin this again, in what way does a Greater Turkey differ from a Greater Germany?
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Already explained, Perun : http://forum.maidenfans.com/http://foru ... 84#p226084
I agree with Forostar's statement, though :

Forostar said:
If I may jump to the present, the biggest difference is that Germany is the only country that doesn't shovel its past under the carpet.

In Russia, China, Japan and Turkey it still goes like this:
:halo: :smartarse: :notworthy: :applause: :blueangel: :nonono: :ahhh:
Click to expand...
 
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