The Tony Martin-era of Black Sabbath

Just listened to Headless Cross, I've never really listened to the Tony Martin era, Headless Cross anyway is very good (the song, I haven't listened to the whole album). I might have to purchase it.
 
Headless Cross seems to be the most popular Martin album. I like it quite a lot myself, especially When Death Calls (which has a Brian May guitar solo), but Tyr is my favourite, I suppose. I'm also very fond of The Eternal Idol.

Still. Foro won't like this, but I prefer both the Ozzy and the Dio eras. I'm not saying I don't like the Martin era, but somehow it lacks both the wicked darkness that is prevalent on the early Ozzy albums and the divine chemistry between Dio and Iommi that makes their collaborations explode. Tony Martin's voice doesn't stick out as much to me, I can't help but think somebody else could sing it and wouldn't sound out of place. The Ozzy and Dio songs on the other hand couldn't be sung by anyone but Ozzy and Dio respectively. I'm not saying Tony Martin is a bad singer, he most definitely isn't, and as I said, I enjoy his efforts a lot and appreciate his albums very much.

However, where's the talk about Glenn Hughes (who starred on the divine Seventh Star, an album originally supposed to be an Iommi solo album) and Ian Gillan (who did the not-quite-as-good-but-still-underrated Born Again album)? :P
 
I won't allow talk about those one-day flies in this topic. *kidding* ;)

I like the Martin era because of the melodic richness on most of those albums. The atmosphere grabs me. I like such elements besides only riffs, and vocals (how intruiging they may be).
The music in this era sounds very complete, and fits excellent to my taste.

By the way, when Martin came in the spotlights they kept comparing him with Dio, because of their similar ranges (though I think Martin could sing higher and the sound of his voice is different of course). I doubt if any singer, back in the late eighties, early nineties could have done his work so easily. Bruce Dickinson perhaps, or your beloved Michael Kiske ;) , or Geoff Tate, but not many singers had such a flexible voice with such a range. Some guys had the range, but not such a nice sounding voice. Nice sounding is subjective of course. I don't find Gillan and Hughes that nice.
 
Yes, the Martin-era albums (and the Gillan and Hughes albums, for that matter), are very brooding and melodic... but somehow, they seem to lack that final kick that makes an album like Master of Reality or Heaven and Hell so special. It's great stuff to lie back and listen to, nevertheless. We are, after all, talking about Black Sabbath, so I am complaining on a very high level. I also agree that on the first couple of albums, Martin displayed a wide range, but you know that range and technique isn't everything to me. In my ears, he lacks the charismatic edge that makes a singer like Ozzy, Dio, or yes, even Kiske, instantly recognisable, and he also lacks the expression and purity in his voice that make me love Dio or Bruce so much. And, I just don't like the sound of his voice as much as others (and this is where my absolute hate for Kiske comes in). I like it, I maybe even like it a lot, but still not as much as that of my favourite singers.

Hughes may not be the best singer, but he sang on an incredibly well-composed and atmospheric album, and I think that from that point of view, Seventh Star should be rated at least as high as the Martin albums. It is, in fact, one of my favourite Sabbath albums. Gillan was way below his abilities, though. If you listen to In Rock and Born Again back to back, it's hard to believe we're talking about the same singer. Gillan is in fact one of my favourite singers, and he has all the qualities I listed above, but on Born Again, it sounds more like he got drunk and forgot all about them (which is even fairly close to what actually happened).
 
It's not that I dig technique and range immensely. It's rather what you can do with it. Namely the possibility to sing certain melodic lines. Melody is for me a hugely important aspect, it's the thing that can grab me instantly or can make a duller song suddenly less dull, when that part comes in. Therefore I enjoy music with Martin, because with him, Sabbath could present melodic music very well. Hughes and Gillan (and Ozzy) have more plain voices which limit the possibilities of writing. Especially Gillan keeps yelling in the same (not too pleasant) tone when a riff continues and continues. I find that less interesting to listen to.

Seventh Star is not among my favourites, I find it more radio friendly and less hardrock. Though I really love the title track and Danger Zone, which I find incredibly catchy and rate among the best Sabbath songs.

By the way, I just read this incredibly interesting update on wiki:
Seventh Star was re-released in Europe on November 1, 2010, in a special edition 2 disc set. Disc 2 includes a concert recorded in 1986, with Ray Gillen performing vocals for the band. In addition, the single version of No Stranger to Love was included as a bonus track on disc 1.

Finally some credit to Ray Gillen, who did do the vocals of The Eternal Idol before Martin took over. A great singer. R.I.P.

I always thought it was a pity that this man was never mentioned but his role in between Hughes and Martin is not unimportant.

From wiki:
In 1986, Black Sabbath started touring for the Seventh Star album when after only a few shows, singer Glenn Hughes got into a fist-fight and lost his voice due to the related sinus and throat injuries. Gillen was offered the job to replace Hughes, which meant leaving Rondinelli to accept the offer. After finishing the Seventh Star tour, Black Sabbath recorded their next album The Eternal Idol with Gillen. However, due to mix of financial burden, writing difficulty (Bob Daisley was recruited for writing as Gillen turned out to be not much of a composer), mismanagement and miscommunication that plagued the band, Gillen and Black Sabbath drummer Eric Singer quit before the album was ever released. Gillen was eventually replaced by Tony Martin, and the vocal track of The Eternal Idol was hurriedly rerecorded note-for-note with Martin before the album was finally released in 1987. However, demo versions of The Eternal Idol featuring Ray do exist on the bootleg circuit. Also, in an interview Tony Martin revealed that the sinister laugh heard on the track Nightmare is in fact Ray's voice.
 
Forostar said:
By the way, I just read this incredibly interesting update on wiki:
Seventh Star was re-released in Europe on November 1, 2010, in a special edition 2 disc set. Disc 2 includes a concert recorded in 1986, with Ray Gillen performing vocals for the band. In addition, the single version of No Stranger to Love was included as a bonus track on disc 1.

Finally some credit to Ray Gillen, who did do the vocals of The Eternal Idol before Martin took over. A great singer. R.I.P.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read about that too. Apparently, it's the 1986 Hammersmith gig. That concert is surprisingly common as a high quality bootleg, and it's also pretty good. I'd be interested in hearing if there is any significant improvement over the boot.
 
The Tony Martin era of Sabbath is overlooked a lot.

Compared to the rest of Sabbath's amazing albums I can see why, but if one listens to these albums with the perspective that they are post-Sabbath Tony Iommi solo projects, they are enjoyable and have some real gems within them.

I love 'Headless Cross' and 'Eternal Idol'.
 
How so? I know you know them a lot more than me so you might see them differently. I think of the Geezer and Tony as Sabbath. As well as Ozzy. Not so much Dio because Dio's music outside of Sabbath is, to me, a lot more true to him. Ozzy fits in Sabbath more than any band he was in. imo.
I guess my point is that I see the original lineup as Sabbath. The other lineups aren't right imo. They're good but they just don't seem like Sabbath to me.
 
Geezer is the second more important to the band, but Iommi never left. I never bought and never will this bull of Ozzy Sabbath is the only real Sabbath. It surely contains the major number of groundbreaking album, but they did just the same with Dio albums and Born Again, The Eternal Idol is a masterpiece, too. Mind you that The Shining was written by Tony and Geezer during the Born Again era.
 
Geezer left? What I mean is that when I think sabbath, I think of Ozzy. Not Dio or any other singer or lineup. That being said, I prefer the material with Dio. Its just as I see them. I'll check out Eternal Idol. That's with Tony Martin right?
 
Yes, it is. But I think you must judge after listening and knowing properly 'cos you're visibly confused - how can one think of Sabbath as the best with Ozzy and prefer Dio's material? Don't go with what others say. Find out for yourself anything in life; I did read one review saying that Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die! were complete shit and fans should avoid both, I just had to listen to those albums and see how despicable they are - It turned out that TE is my fave Sabbath album to play along on the guitar (later, I discovered it's Garry Jennings all time fave album) and NSD! is simply my fave Sabbath album.

Apart from technical information, reviews are basically useless, unless you agree with the review, but only after listening to the album.
 
I didn't say they were best with Ozzy, I said that when I think of Black Sabbath, I think of the original lineup. Particularly Ozzy. It's probably just the way I was introduced to them.
 
I think Sabbath is synonymous with Ozzy, given his impact on metal, but to me, Sabbath really hit its stride with Dio and then kind of kicked major ass with Tony Martin. I think Ozzy-era Sabbath was the obvious progenitor of doom metal (Candlemass and DoomSword are two of my favorite bands), but that Tony Martin-era was just more interesting. I would even put Tyr as Sabbath's best album, only slightly nudging out Heaven and Hell (how's THAT for blasphemy!).

Indeed, I think Odin's Court/Valhalla is the best thing Sabbath ever did musically. Perhaps I love it because to me, it is an Iron Maiden song - sweet, soft beginning, fabulous lyrics, a driving beat akin to the "Maiden gallop" (not sure who coined that phrase but it is PERFECT), a wonderful chorus, and a really powerful message. Its complexity makes Ozzy-era Sabbath seem... primitive. Which it is, but you can't fault them for being trailblazers!
 
Black Sabbath is trailblazer in every era. Tyr is a masterpiece of its time and people will hardly perceive it 'cos they had already formed their imagery on what Sabbath was/is all about.
 
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