The Running thread

GhostofCain said:
Out of curiosity, how do you know your VO2max?
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Two ways and I've done both.
First and most accurate way is to go to laboratory and do an ergometric test.
Though the purpose of the test isn't so much to find the VO2 max but to establish at which point your body starts to accumulate lactic acid on your muscles, the famous Lactate Threshold.

Second but more approximative way is via your smart /sport watch. If you have a good one such as Garmin, Coros or AppleWatch, you can be pretty sure that whatever indication you get, is close to reality.

For example my Apple Watch was showing 48.3 VO2 max when I did the ergometric test, September 15th. My official VO2 max back then found to be 47.7 so it's pretty close.

VO2max.png

Since then the indication in Health App (which feeds from the Watch) has gone up to 50.6. Which means that it may be 50.0 in reality or even less, but we can safely assume that it has gone considerably up during the last month, which is something my coach can see just by seeing my running diary and not my watch.

If you go through previous pages that I've posted other screenshots of my VO2 max, you'll see that 2 units of improvement in just a month is a hell of a progress. This is exactly due to structured training based on the precise definition of my Lactate Threshold, one month ago.
 
Thanks for the detailed response! I get an estimate between 52 and 56 from my Fitbit, but I imagine the real value is probably lower.
 
GhostofCain said:
I get an estimate between 52 and 56 from my Fitbit, but I imagine the real value is probably lower.
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Anything above 38 is above average for our age, anything above 47 is high and from >50 we enter athletic territory!

The times that you post are unreal for your age and volume of training, so I’d guess you have built a base over the years, such as being seriously into a sport when young which I believe you did.

In any case a VO2 max of 52 or above would be constant with your times, so I’m not surprised with the value itself, but with how you manage to maintain VO2 max that high with such a little volume of exercise.
 
____no5 said:
Anything above 38 is above average for our age, anything above 47 is high and from >50 we enter athletic territory!

The times that you post are unreal for your age and volume of training, so I’d guess you have built a base over the years, such as being seriously into a sport when young which I believe you did.

In any case a VO2 max of 52 or above would be constant with your times, so I’m not surprised with the value itself, but with how you manage to maintain VO2 max that high with such a little volume of exercise.
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Thanks for the information. I was not aware of that (I must admit my self-deprecating nature makes me see myself as worthless most of the time :lol: ).

I should add that I exercise every day, from walking a lot to cycling to work every week day. I have also recently started playing basketball again (I played in teams from ages 11 to 18) now that my 9 year old daughter is into the sport. I must make the most of the time I have being taller than her! :lol:
 
GhostofCain said:
I should add that I exercise every day, from walking a lot to cycling to work every week day. I have also recently started playing basketball again (I played in teams from ages 11 to 18) now that my 9 year old daughter is into the sport. I must make the most of the time I have being taller than her! :lol:
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I'm aware of that, however this is very casual exercise to explain that level of cardio fitness at such age. How many kilometres you cycle every week day? At what speed?
 
____no5 said:
I'm aware of that, however this is very casual exercise to explain that level of cardio fitness at such age. How many kilometres you cycle every week day? At what speed?
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13km every day in a very hilly area; average speed is 23km/h, but it is an area with traffic lights so I have to stop relatively often.
 
____no5 said:
Second but more approximative way is via your smart /sport watch. If you have a good one such as Garmin, Coros or AppleWatch, you can be pretty sure that whatever indication you get, is close to reality.
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This is how I always check it, for simplicity and because I am nowhere near the level where the accuracy would matter.

I started on 35 back in July, but am currently on 41. This has been the case for around a month now - it hasn't increased since because I've dropped volume due to a sore/tight calf.

I have completed 10K in under an hour again since then, which was one of my targets! For now I just need to finish recovering and then build up volume again to keep everything headed in the right direction.
 
It sucks when injuries get in the way!

I had to stop running for nearly two weeks due to a very sore neck and finally managed to go out for a short run yesterday. I did not want to overdo it as one of my knees has been slightly sore too recently, so only did 5.2 km in 23 minutes. Hopefully I will go back to running 30 minutes or more on several days next week.
 
This week I’m expected to achieve a precious milestone for first time ever, more than 300km run in a month! Expected to have done ~340km by 31 October. As a matter of fact I never had done even 200km in a month before but I broke that milestone last month.
Coming Sunday will be my long run peak, at 32k. From next week I’ll start to decrease the volume from 80k /week now to about 60k /week around the race day.
Also, my obligations for events, travelling etc will be close to zero for November which means good food and sleep for most of the time. I travelled too much lately and while I managed not to loose a single training session, food and sleep weren‘t always perfect to put it mildly.
The hard times are over baby!
 
Last year, for my last day in Greece I visited the Marathon site. This year's last day I visited Panathinaiko Stadium, finishing point of the first modern marathon.

By the way I run a mock up 10km of the classic route last year and noticed that the runners must leave the main street, encircle Marathon tumulus (to honor the site I guess) and go back to main route which is ~5km all together from the starting point. Thus the original run of Pheidippides was ~37 km not 42.

route_marathon_full.jpg

This is the tomb of the Athenians that died during the battle. Apparently this is the very site of the battle thus we can presume that Pheidippides started his run from here.
Tomb of Athenians.jpeg

And here is the Stadium where the first modern Olympic Games took place and finishing point of first modern marathon race. Of course Pheidippides didn't die here, but probably at Pnyx a site close to Acropolis, the political centre of then Athens. Which is a kilometre far.
Panathinaiko.jpeg
 
Did a great long run today, 32.5km at 5:57/km pace, average heart rate 137 and negative splits for the last 7.5km.
Seriously good run, my coach was impressed.
I'm waiting to receive the training plan for November later tonight but I'm pretty sure this was my peak (longest) long run before the race.
 
We are now less than two weeks before my marathon and last Friday I had to skip a training session first time in 3 months for something that looked like an injury.

So I went to physiotherapist, except that she didn't touch me at all one guy was examining my leg /thigh and she was translating. So the verdict was: I had to go there twice a week for 2 months, pay 100$ each time AND stop running for 10 days. I told her are you serious? If it's not to run for 10 days I could do it from home why ever come here?
After that she agreed that I could continue to run but I had to do some exercises that she'd show me 1 hour per day and we see how it goes.

Since then I'm putting frequently ice on my leg/thigh, a few balms for the muscles, doing the exercises she gave me and I feel less and less pain by the day.

EDIT: Part 2

I run on Saturday it was a recovery slow run but couldn’t even do a 5k. My coach was crazy busy as he had 12 athletes running for Athens marathon the next day so I didn’t even bother to call him.
My idea was I don’t run until it gets better, even if that meant I loose part of my fitness.

Thankfully I talked with a friend who talked about his experience and school of thought that to get better you shouldn’t completely stop running as the muscle will get too much weaker.
So I started the exercises, ice & foams as per physiotherapist that almost brought tears in my eyes and lasted an hour.
Next day I run 20k very easy I was feeling the pain (or bothering if you like) for 2 hours but managed to run it.

On Monday rest day, I went in a new physiotherapist who did a real work on my legs and Tuesday during and after the run I felt so much better.
 
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I hope you’ll manage to train before the race!

I have not run more than once a week lately as a result of too much work and a very persistent cold, but last Friday I managed to do 6.84 km in 30 minutes and today I ran 6.88 km in the same time.
 
GhostofCain said:
I hope you’ll manage to train before the race!
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I did but less (skipped 3 sessions) and not so intensively during the intervals sessions.

So the day of the race arrived and still I had a light pain on my right leg (quads). Following the advice of my coach I didn't took any painkiller so I could monitor the pain and quit if necessary.
I did however put some kinesiology tapes with the help of my companion who is a master on that. The effect was amazing, actually more on that later.

Shang Ma.jpg

I arrived to the assembly point and they put me believe it or not with the elites hahahah no joke the Kenyans were literally 3 metres in front of me. I tried to go to the back blocks (to avoid being squeezed by the faster ones in the back) and the security won't allow me!!

I was unsure of what will happen, my preparation was all but perfect but the recent injury had injected a cloud of doubt and lack of confidence of what I would do in the day of the race.

The strategy proposed by my coach was to go with a 5:30 /km pace until the 30th kilometre and then if I have still power inside me to speed up.
So I did exactly that until the 7th kilometre but I could not keep steady pace. Then I saw in front of me the pacers of 3:45 race time = 5:19/km pace.

Since I was with the elites I started ~10 minutes before them, so even if they were running faster they now appeared from my back just like Dei ex machina.
I took it as a sign and I followed them, the downside is I was not following the strategy of my coach but it was so much easier to not have to think or care about your watch and even hiding behind them and use them as a wind shield.

So I followed them for 20 kilometres before I loose them due to my slowing down in the stations. The bastards they weren't drinking any water in the stations -I had to slow down in every station as the organisation didn't give bottles only glasses !!! so eventually after 8 stations that I was accelerating to catch them I gave up and lost them.

And so at kilometre 27 without pacers to make it easy for me, the jog became a race. First, people in front of me started to walk, or quit or get injured. Which is a strange feeling, especially those that they walk give you a huge temptation to do the same.
Second my legs started to pain. No injury pain, pure fatigue. On the plus side at about that time her ladyship appeared in the crowed behind the bars and started to follow me riding her bicycle until kilometre 33. During all this time I kept my pace steady at about 5:19 /km.

But at that station two things happened. First she had to leave so go and wait me close to the finish line. Second for first time in the race I had to stop momentarily and walk for 20 seconds or so, in order to secure enough water to drink my gel with.
So I lost my rhythm and for the next 6 kilometres I slowed down considerably to ~5:35 pace. At that point there were no clouds or shadow and the sun was up and burning us and the only thing I had in my mind it was water, I need some water.

That was by far the most challenging segment of the race, the injured and walking people around me more and more, first aid people more and more frequently ready to spray some ice on runners legs but also the crowd more dense now and handing waters /fruits to the runners and cheering to encourage us.

At the peak of my desperation for water, I saw one person from the crowd offering me a bottle, though he is my angel -later I saw a video made from my running club that it revealed he was too simply a club member and he knew me, while I was so tired that I didn't even realised that I was passing in front of my running club crowd. :D

Drunk the half bottle and the rest of half I put in my exposed body parts, arms, neck to cool them off.

Then the song Horse to the Water came in my earphones and that was the turning point. At the time that I add it to the compilation I hadn't realise it, but this moment it clicked.

The name of this marathon in Chinese is上马 or ShangMa =Shanghai Marathon, except that Ma also means Horse. So I was listening "Horse, Water, Drink" the moment I had just quenched my thirst and all this combination completely changed my mood and I started running fast again.
We are at kilometre 39 the pain and fatigue are almost unbearable but on the same time I know that I've made it so I started to dance as I was running.

The next 3 kilometres until the finish line were painful but also ecstatic, dancing /running /air guitar, drums and saxophone for the most of the time.

Finish time 3:49:24 or 5:26 /km pace for my first marathon ever +under injury. One more time 3:49:24 :edmetal: :edmetal: :cheers:

Shang Ma splits.JPG

*the last 0.2Km were after the finish line. The watch was 200m behind the course official distance so I had to run -walk in the crowds after the finish line to get Strava recognise it as a marathon !!!

 
____no5 said:
I did but less (skipped 3 sessions) and not so intensively during the intervals sessions.

So the day of the race arrived and still I had a light pain on my right leg (quads). Following the advice of my coach I didn't took any painkiller so I could monitor the pain and quit if necessary.
I did however put some kinesiology tapes with the help of my companion who is a master on that. The effect was amazing, actually more on that later.

View attachment 31973

I arrived to the assembly point and they put me believe it or not with the elites hahahah no joke the Kenyans were literally 3 metres in front of me. I tried to go to the back blocks (to avoid being squeezed by the faster ones in the back) and the security won't allow me!!

I was unsure of what will happen, my preparation was all but perfect but the recent injury had injected a cloud of doubt and lack of confidence of what I would do in the day of the race.

The strategy proposed by my coach was to go with a 5:30 /km pace until the 30th kilometre and then if I have still power inside me to speed up.
So I did exactly that until the 7th kilometre but I could not keep steady pace. Then I saw in front of me the pacers of 3:45 race time = 5:19/km pace.

Since I was with the elites I started ~10 minutes before them, so even if they were running faster they now appeared from my back just like Dei ex machina.
I took it as a sign and I followed them, the downside is I was not following the strategy of my coach but it was so much easier to not have to think or care about your watch and even hiding behind them and use them as a wind shield.

So I followed them for 20 kilometres before I loose them due to my slowing down in the stations. The bastards they weren't drinking any water in the stations -I had to slow down in every station as the organisation didn't give bottles only glasses !!! so eventually after 8 stations that I was accelerating to catch them I gave up and lost them.

And so at kilometre 27 without pacers to make it easy for me, the jog became a race. First, people in front of me started to walk, or quit or get injured. Which is a strange feeling, especially those that they walk give you a huge temptation to do the same.
Second my legs started to pain. No injury pain, pure fatigue. On the plus side at about that time her ladyship appeared in the crowed behind the bars and started to follow me riding her bicycle until kilometre 33. During all this time I kept my pace steady at about 5:19 /km.

But at that station two things happened. First she had to leave so go and wait me close to the finish line. Second for first time in the race I had to stop momentarily and walk for 20 seconds or so, in order to secure enough water to drink my gel with.
So I lost my rhythm and for the next 6 kilometres I slowed down considerably to ~5:35 pace. At that point there were no clouds or shadow and the sun was up and burning us and the only thing I had in my mind it was water, I need some water.

That was by far the most challenging segment of the race, the injured and walking people around me more and more, first aid people more and more frequently ready to spray some ice on runners legs but also the crowd more dense now and handing waters /fruits to the runners and cheering to encourage us.

At the peak of my desperation for water, I saw one person from the crowd offering me a bottle, though he is my angel -later I saw a video made from my running club that it revealed he was too simply a club member and he knew me, while I was so tired that I didn't even realised that I was passing in front of my running club crowd. :D

Drunk the half bottle and the rest of half I put in my exposed body parts, arms, neck to cool them off.

Then the song Horse to the Water came in my earphones and that was the turning point. At the time that I add it to the compilation I hadn't realise it, but this moment it clicked.

The name of this marathon in Chinese is上马 or ShangMa =Shanghai Marathon, except that Ma also means Horse. So I was listening "Horse, Water, Drink" the moment I had just quenched my thirst and all this combination completely changed my mood and I started running fast again.
We are at kilometre 39 the pain and fatigue are almost unbearable but on the same time I know that I've made it so I started to dance as I was running.

The next 3 kilometres until the finish line were painful but also ecstatic, dancing /running /air guitar, drums and saxophone for the most of the time.

Finish time 3:49:24 or 5:26 /km pace for my first marathon ever +under injury. One more time 3:49:24 :edmetal: :edmetal: :cheers:

View attachment 31975

*the last 0.2Km were after the finish line. The watch was 200m behind the course official distance so I had to run -walk in the crowds after the finish line to get Strava recognise it as a marathon !!!

Click to expand...

Congratulations!!
 
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