The Reason Behind Blaze & Txf Bashing

A

Anonymous

Guest
after much researching, i've got a new theory for the TXF (or blaze) bashing. here it follows:

TXF came out in 1995, the same year Van Halen released 'Balance'. Both albums, in their essence,
were very gloomy sounding (i mean vh jumped from masturbation to politics, if u know what i

mean). the mid-90s were indeed very dark times for music, as it was ruled either by depressing

grunge (Pearl Jam), distorted metal(a la Alice in Chains,Soundgarden) or punkstars(rollins

band, green day, offspring). fans were eager for something to cheer them up from the kings of

metal & good-time-rock - maiden & vh. instead they were treated to bleak music (execllent

although), in the case of maiden with a melanchoic singer, which turned of a lot off a lot of fans.

my theory was strenghtened by conversations with maiden fans. whereas the average maiden fans
listening to maiden after bruce's reinstatement (including me) thought that TXF was a

masterpiece & blaze a amazing singer, the fans who were around in 95 despised both the album
& the singer. this bad feeling continued upto VXI (which is in my opinion, the worst IM album),
leading to blaze's booting. i can also see this pattern with vh, who, although having earned a
2x platinum album with balance, lost sammy haggar, & recorded their worst album 'VH-III' with

gary cherone.

the thing i'm trying to say that, had TXF was released in the 80s or even after 2000, blaze would
have been hailed as the king, & the album as, well probably maiden's finest creation. it's a matter
of timing actually.

whoo, that was one hell of a theory. now only if i can use it for my class test tomorrow. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"smile.gif\" /]
 
I have to say i couldnt agree with you more. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"smile.gif\" /]
 
I think that The X Factor's dark mood contributed to the album being disliked by quite a few Maiden fans. However, I think the primary reason for all the Blaze era bashing is simply the fact that some people can't accept change. However, I've noticed that a lot of fans who once disliked The X Factor enjoy it now. I think that the general consencus from Maiden fans is that The X Factor is a good album not on par with Number of the Beast through Seventh Son, but better than No Prayer for the Dying and Fear of the Dark by a longshot.
 
The same situation can be applied to My Dying Bride's 34.788% Complete. They changed from their trademark doom/death sound and tried an experiment in techno/pop/industrial realms. Obviously, the fans were pissed. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"^_^\" border=\"0\" alt=\"happy.gif\" /] After that, the band returned to their original roots on The Light At The End Of The World. But of course, the main way to appreciate the Blaze albums are just to surpass your expecattions for the traditional Maiden we all know.
 
[!--quoteo(post=129044:date=Feb 15 2006, 10:10 PM:name=Mario88)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Mario88 @ Feb 15 2006, 10:10 PM) [snapback]129044[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
...I think the primary reason for all the Blaze era bashing is simply the fact that some people can't accept change.
[/quote]

Perhaps, but I think the same principle explains why some people on this board insist that the "Sign of the Cross" is better with Blaze singing than with Bruce. What I think happens is simply that those people heard it first with Blaze's voice and then can't get used to hearing the song any other way. So even though Bruce's version at RIR is infinitely better than Blaze's, some fans insist on not recognizing that! [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=129066:date=Feb 16 2006, 05:30 AM:name=macunaima)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(macunaima @ Feb 16 2006, 05:30 AM) [snapback]129066[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
...Bruce's version at RIR is infinitely better than Blaze's...
[/quote]
I don't agree with that. I think both versions are great. However, I will agree that many people don't give Bruce's version a fair chance.

And as a mathematician, I object to the misuse of the concept of infinity. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]

We've had this discussion before: apples and oranges. Just because oranges are better doesn't mean they are infinitely better. There are situations in which apples are preferable: for example, apple pie is better than orange pie. (Although neither is as good as peach pie.)
 
[!--quoteo(post=129074:date=Feb 16 2006, 12:53 PM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Feb 16 2006, 12:53 PM) [snapback]129074[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
And as a mathematician, I object to the misuse of the concept of infinity. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
[/quote]

I didn't misuse the concept at all! No finite sequence of intensifying adverbs is sufficient to convey the difference in quality between the two versions.

Bruce's version is not simply much(1), much(2),...,much(n) better than Blaze's for any finite n. We really need n to be some order of infinity to convey the desired magnitude, preferably an uncountable infinity. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
Interesting point, but wouldn't iut stand to reason that given the 1990s post-grunge metal scene was an all-round more political and darker beast than the pre-grunge good-time rock years of yore, a darker more edgy Maiden album would appeal more to the comtemporary crowd while dragging the long-term fans in line with fashion without loosing their classic beloved maiden sound?

I like Blaze and don;t bash him for the sake of it. After Bruce left and I found out Blaze was the new singer, I wanted it to work out so bad for the guy. I wanted Maiden to have a great new start and blow the world away once again with a fresh new talent at the helm. Unfortunately this did not happen. My ideas on why the Blaze era was not a great success (in levels of popularity, record sales and ticket sales in some parts of hte world), are not predominantly aimed at poor Blaze, but at various factors.

Firstly the 1990s was a bad time for metal. The early 1990s saw the emrgence and later the dominance of Grunge music which broke down the rock-star facade of most bands which had dominated the 80s. The glam and pomp of bands like Van Halen, Motley Crue, Def Leppard etc. became ridiculous when the kids were tuning into more heart wrenching and emotional music that was emerging from the underground. All of a sudden contemporary fans no longer wanted to hear bands sing about last nights groupies or getting wasted on a weekend. Or in the case of traditional metal, dungeons. dragons, horror movies and war sotries. Furthermore as a response to grunge's aggressive and emotional sound metal had responded with an even more aggressive and heavy sound, changing the lyrical syle from fantasy and escapism to politics and the dark aspects of life. Traditionally Maiden were a escapist band, i.e. their fans did not attend gigs or buy their records to hear about thrid world crisis or the oppression of the government, they listened ot hear stories of past wars, horror films, prostitutes called charlotte etc. Maiden, who had dominated the 80s, with or without Bruce were in trouble in the 1990s due to the shift in musical trends.

However, Maiden still had their core fan base which would never be diminished by current trends, the fans that just love Maiden for being Maiden. Unfortunately (IMHO), this fanbase was also being chipped away by two poorly recieved albums (in light of their undisputed excellent previous releases), NPFTD and FOTD. Both these albums were good, but had a lot of filler compared to SSOASS which had no filler and was wall to wall excellence (something ost fans had come ot expect from Maiden). The 1990s saw Maiden (IMHO) run out of steam a little in the song writing department. Many songs on the last two Bruce albums such as Holy Smoke, the Assassin, Chains of Misery, the Apparition etc. seemed formulatic and when compared tracks like Aces high, Wasted YEars, Hallwed Be Thy Name, the Trooper etc.

This was a bad time for Maiden who for one reason or another had not been producing the 'A' material of the 80s. At the time of Bruce leaving, Steve was apparently having a rough patch with his marriage and things too, as a result, the following material he wrote was more on the darker side. While this suited Blaze's style and is entirely bad music, I think it was a shock to the die-hard fans.

This alone though is not what makes the Blaze era a bad one. I genuinely think that the whole band was still expriencing a dry spell when it came ot producing new material, with only a few real classic Maiden barnstormers (Man on the edge, Clansman, Futureal and Sign of the Cross) being produced during this time. The X-Factor is a good album, but I tend not to listen to it too much as it seems to drone on and on with each song sounding increasingly the same, with the fast-bit, slow-bit, repeated middle section type arrangements. Virtual XI had more variety, but I think did not have a great quality of songs. I suspect (with some evidence I think) Mr Harris was growing tired of it all during the late 1990s and this is why Virtual XI only has 8 tracks and the following tour had some odd ending gigs without encores etc.

To add to the cascading problem, Blaze had difficulty singing the classic Maiden stuff. I don;t care what any die-hard pro-Blaze fans try to say, Blaze did not have an adeaute voice to front Iron Maiden. He coped pretty well but when you look at his whole stint with the band, his live preformances were dissapointing and he struggeled with some classic Maiden songs that the fans were hungry to hear. Run to the hills andyone?

Bruce and Adrian re-joining the fold, coupled with a renewed affection by contemporary fans for 'classic' metal or 'real' metal if you like, lead to a refreshed Maiden to start writing new and better material.

I dislike the Blaze bashing because 1.) Blaze gave his best shot and forces were against him from day one, 2.) Some people forget not all Maiden's material was golden before Blaze joined, I mean NPFTD is a terrible album by any standards, 3.) The poorly recieved albums were not a reflection of Blaze's voice, they were a group effort by the whole band, blame Harris (main songwriting force in the band) if you don;t like the albums, he wrote most of the music and melodies.
 
[!--quoteo(post=129126:date=Feb 17 2006, 08:57 AM:name=NumberoftheGaz)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(NumberoftheGaz @ Feb 17 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]129126[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
To add to the cascading problem, Blaze had difficulty singing the classic Maiden stuff. I don;t care what any die-hard pro-Blaze fans try to say, Blaze did not have an adeaute voice to front Iron Maiden. He coped pretty well but when you look at his whole stint with the band, his live preformances were dissapointing and he struggeled with some classic Maiden songs that the fans were hungry to hear. Run to the hills andyone?
[/quote]

You're right in that aspect, Blaze was having great difficulties to sing Bruce-era material. But can you blame him? Absolutely not - his voice is much lower, he has a smaller range than Bruce - still they played the songs in the same key. When they decided to choose Blaze as the new singer for the band, didn't they think about that problem of the different voices/ranges? They could've easily solved this problem by playing the songs in a lower key, as Blaze does with his solo band. Ironically they played "Lord Of The Flies" on the DOD Tour in a lower key to allow Bruce to sing the chorus higher, but they didn't do it for Blaze singing "The Trooper". Strange if you ask me. I always wondered about Blaze's audition with Maiden - he must've been absolutely fantastic at singing Bruce's songs, otherwise they wouldn't/shouldn't have picked him, or not?
 
[!--quoteo(post=129126:date=Feb 17 2006, 08:57 AM:name=NumberoftheGaz)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(NumberoftheGaz @ Feb 17 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]129126[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
To add to the cascading problem, Blaze had difficulty singing the classic Maiden stuff. I don;t care what any die-hard pro-Blaze fans try to say, Blaze did not have an adeaute voice to front Iron Maiden. He coped pretty well but when you look at his whole stint with the band, his live preformances were dissapointing and he struggeled with some classic Maiden songs that the fans were hungry to hear. Run to the hills andyone?
[/quote]

I agree with most of your post, and to an extent also with this passage. However, I find it very unfair to point the finger at Blaze saying he can't do Bruce's material -which, in most parts is correct, mind you- when Bruce can neither properly do Pauls nor Blazes' stuff. I'm not very fond of Bruce's interpretations of Remember Tomorrow, Iron Maiden (yes, indeed, although it doesn't really matter when it comes to the moment), Murders In The Rue Morgue or Killers. Sometimes he sings the stuff decently, but most of the time, he doesn't. I'm glad he never sung Strange World publically- I think he would have butchered it. As for Blazes' songs, just listen to him massacring Futureal or Lord Of The Flies. He just doesn't have the voice for it. I'm just saying this so you take it into account when thinking about Blaze singing Bruce's songs. Of course Blaze butchers some of Bruce's stuff, but he also sings some of it decently (Afraid To Shoot Strangers or Fear Of The Dark for example) just as Bruce sings a lot of Pauls and some of Blaze's stuff well.

Just my thoughts [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"^_^\" border=\"0\" alt=\"happy.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=129177:date=Feb 17 2006, 11:05 PM:name=TheTrooper666)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(TheTrooper666 @ Feb 17 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]129177[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
You're right in that aspect, Blaze was having great difficulties to sing Bruce-era material. But can you blame him? Absolutely not - his voice is much lower, he has a smaller range than Bruce - still they played the songs in the same key. When they decided to choose Blaze as the new singer for the band, didn't they think about that problem of the different voices/ranges? They could've easily solved this problem by playing the songs in a lower key, as Blaze does with his solo band. Ironically they played "Lord Of The Flies" on the DOD Tour in a lower key to allow Bruce to sing the chorus higher, but they didn't do it for Blaze singing "The Trooper". Strange if you ask me. I always wondered about Blaze's audition with Maiden - he must've been absolutely fantastic at singing Bruce's songs, otherwise they wouldn't/shouldn't have picked him, or not?
[/quote]
The reason they played "Lord of the Flies" in a different key on DOD tour is because that was the key it was written in originally, they had to change the key for Blaze to sing it, I know this for a fact. As to why they didn't change the rest of the material to a key Blaze could handle I don't know. I don't knock Blaze either, he did his best, I saw them several times live with him and I enjoyed the shows, but TXF is the only Maiden album I don't own, I bought it and took it back whether it's got good songs or not I just couldn't listen to it everything vocally is just so mono-tonal, there is just no range there. VXII was a step back to where maiden had been sound/melody wise but the songs are patchy. It's a shame I liked Blaze with Wolfsbane I just think he toed a line that Steve probably wanted him to go down and he wasn't in a position to question it, if anyone should be blamed for Maiden's sticky patch from NPFTD through to FOTD it's definitely Steve. When he took over the production duties and recording in his home studio the material they turned out just sounded weak, all of the albums from one to DOD have had filler or weaker songs but the production and sound of them can help carry a weaker song, but on SH produced albums even the good stuff struggles, it was obviously something Bruce in particular wasn't happy about because it was one of his main topics when he and Adrian rejoined that they had to get a top flight producer and work in a proper studio. Thing is when NPFTD came out the Janick bashing started, when TXF came out it was Blazes turn, truth is if anyone needed a bashing it was Mr Harris, but to be honest he's the boss and he's entitled to have a dodgy patch because 90% of his output over the last 30 years has been bloody genius. Thank god those days are gone personally I think BNW and DOD can stand toe to toe with best of anything they have ever done and there aren't many bands that have been around that amount of time and say that about!
 
[!--quoteo(post=129192:date=Feb 18 2006, 12:56 AM:name=DTFM)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(DTFM @ Feb 18 2006, 12:56 AM) [snapback]129192[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
The reason they played "Lord of the Flies" in a different key on DOD tour is because that was the key it was written in originally, they had to change the key for Blaze to sing it, I know this for a fact.
[/quote]

Source? (Because it sounds VERY unlikely!)
 
[!--quoteo(post=129196:date=Feb 18 2006, 01:10 AM:name=TheTrooper666)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(TheTrooper666 @ Feb 18 2006, 01:10 AM) [snapback]129196[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Source? (Because it sounds VERY unlikely!)
[/quote]

I wouldn't be too surprised if some parts of the songs on The X Factor were written while Bruce was still in the band (some material for Brave New World was written while Blaze was still in), but I highly doubt any of the vocals that ended up on the album were intended for Bruce- certainly not Lord Of The Flies. That doesn't mean that I doubt that any vocal parts were written in that time, but I doubt they ended up on the album (at least not in the original form).
 
Just a quick question, there has been a lot of comments about blaze singing bruces stuff, but what about Paul's? Seeing as (to me) blaze and paul's ranges where closer than bruces, surly he must have sung some good Di'Anno songs live? Yet I have not seen/heard one reference about this.
 
[!--quoteo(post=129196:date=Feb 18 2006, 12:10 AM:name=TheTrooper666)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(TheTrooper666 @ Feb 18 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]129196[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Source? (Because it sounds VERY unlikely!)
[/quote]
A member of the band. Who will remain nameless to protect his good name and mine!
I can't remember if it was written with Bruce in mind and then changed for Blaze or whether they started writing in the DOD tour key and then had to change it when they recorded with Blaze.
But the DOD key is the original one.
No word of a lie.
 
[!--quoteo(post=129199:date=Feb 18 2006, 12:35 AM:name=Legionnaire)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Legionnaire @ Feb 18 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]129199[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Just a quick question, there has been a lot of comments about blaze singing bruces stuff, but what about Paul's? Seeing as (to me) blaze and paul's ranges where closer than bruces, surly he must have sung some good Di'Anno songs live? Yet I have not seen/heard one reference about this.
[/quote]
With all due respect Blaze's and Paul's voices bear no resmblance to each other in tone or range.
Personally I enjoyed Blaze's live performances on all of the material, I just couldn't handle TXF, sorry!
 
Paul's and Blaze's range are closer than Blaze's and Bruce's. And Blaze was singing Paul-era material pretty good actually!

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]A member of the band. Who will remain nameless to protect his good name and mine![/quote]

I don't understand why the member has to be "protected" and from what, but if you say so...
 
No, it's to keep the name tr00ly kvlt so the posers won't know about it. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
All I have to say, it's that I admire Blaze Bayle for the fact that the guy was in front a huge amount of people that were already used to Bruce, I think he has a lot of credit for that. Just imagine how hard it must had been.
 
[!--quoteo(post=129308:date=Feb 19 2006, 08:08 PM:name=Conor)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Feb 19 2006, 08:08 PM) [snapback]129308[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I think the guy that posted that is just pretending he knows somebody close to the band, why else would he not give out the name? ::
[/quote]
If you are a friend of someone and they tell you something in a private conversation then it is just manners not to use their name.
I was just trying to pass on some information that I thought all of you might be interested in, firstly I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about and then when asked where I got the info from, I'm then just a liar.

Believe what you want to believe about all of it I don't give a shit, I should have just kept quiet in the first place and left you all to it.
What's the problem that the truth didn't fit the theory?

It's a shame I thought these boards were different to the IMBB, that's why I posted, you live and learn.

Up The Irons.
 
Back
Top