The Greatest Metal Song Cup - Part II, Round 4, Matches 82-87

[JudasMyGuide]

for other reasons than sounding like Steinman, which we did not really pick up on.

Really? Pretty weird, that piano part after the calm section at 8:55 and the heavier rendition from 9:38 onwards feels so much like a downright homage it was my immediate thought when I first heard the song all those years ago and I still hear it there. The instrumentation, the rhythmic feel, the melody, even. Oh, well.

 

[MindRuler]

And owngoal by @Kalata

 

[Diesel 11]

Really? Pretty weird, that piano part after the calm section at 8:55 and the heavier rendition from 9:38 onwards feels so much like a downright homage it was my immediate thought when I first heard the song all those years ago and I still hear it there. The instrumentation, the rhythmic feel, the melody, even. Oh, well.

I’ll have to listen to it again later.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Ratt is cheesy and has a really awful whisper talk section. The chorus is more anemic than anthemic. Modern Day Cowboy has that Scorpions-esque two guitarists swinging their dicks in unison boom bap groove, but also good dynamics and guitar playing. Red Alert sounds like a combination of the first two songs but on a bush league budget. They’re trying to warn you about how cool they are, but it sounds more like a Biege Alert to me. A vote for Tesla.

Sancta Terra is a typical Mark Jansen song, with an even better grip on melodies than usual and a great ear for dynamics. It’s a decent little symphonic metal tune that ends up being a bit of an ear worm. The Seven Angels is exactly as cheesy and pompous as to be expected from a 14 minute Tobias Sammett song. The verses are so catchy and silly that they immediately call to mind Dio singing in The Pick of Destiny. It’s that silly. The chorus sounds like the archetype for every Sabaton song in the past decade. The bridge riff around 5:00 sounds like someone decided to make a major key version of the Doom theme (aka Master of Puppets). I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a cheap string section instrumental that I would describe as both “triumphant” and “subdued”, but here we are. I like the spooky pumpkin choir that marks the turning point of the song, but the Meatloaf-on-helium bit that follows is too much (and pretty sonically jarring). I’m torn on this match, but I guess the first half of Avantasia’s track is stronger than Epica, despite the second half being quite twee.

Primordial certainly scratch that itch of mine that incorporates Celtic folk styles, and the song is cool in a too long and droning sort of way. Based on the first minute of Ensiferum, I was ready to vote for Primoridal here, but in terms of metal: Treacherous Gods has the heavy guitars playing folk melodies, clean group chanting, and a general high level of cheesiness that I cannot overlook.

The Unforgiven is one of those songs that proves Metallica’s songwriting is just better than their peers. It’s a top tier deviation from their thrash roots and has one of Hammett’s best solos (before his downfall). Municipal Waste’s gross punky thrash sounds downright juvenile next to such a titan.

Alright, Devin, let’s strap in here…this is funny. I mean, really funny. Sure, the music is amazing and interesting and impressive…but it’s just so much of everything. I get that that’s the point, but as a song, nah, definitely not. As a performance theater piece? Sure! Way too schizophrenic for me. The first minute of Through The Looking Glass is more melodic, catchier, and more cohesive (even while shifting time signatures) than anything from Devin’s carnival ride. I don’t want to shit on Devin, but there is no match here. Symphony X provide one of their most magical, beautiful epics here. Every second of Through The Looking Glass is an emotional wonder to me.

I have tried to get into Nevermore so many times and, just like in this example, I just can’t get past the vocals. It’s like part Geoff Tate, part classic metal, part Alice In Chains? Idk. The guitar work here is stellar and the song is good, but as before, cannot compare to an absolute beast of an epic from Symphony X’s best album. An easy vote for Rediscovery.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

You know why Nightwish became bigger than any other symphonic-female-fronted-metal-band? Tuomas Holopainen knows (knew?) how to write fucking good songs. Listening to Epica, there's really nothing wrong with "Sancta Terra", but I just don't find it memorable at all (and Simone Simons' voice isn't nearly as good or iconic as Tarja's).

Absolutely. The only bands in that genre that can write good melodies other than Nightwish had to go fully pop to do it. Epica (and Mark Jansen's songwriting in After Forever) can never hit that mark.

Shoot me but I can't get into V at all. I like Evolution (The Grand Design) but nothing else from the album works for me.

Sure thing.

I, too, shall take up arms!

 

[DJMayes]

Match 67 - Ratt - Lay It Down

Match 68 - Avantasia - The Seven Angels

Match 69 - Primordial - Heathen Tribes

Match 70 - Metallica - The Unforgiven

Match 71 - Symphony X - Through The Looking Glass

Match 72 - Symphony X - Rediscovery Pt. II

 

[Jer]

"Lay It Down" was on my original nomination list until I replaced it with the Sacred Outcry track at the last minute. Glad to see it still represented here. This song has one of those magically lyrical riffs that really stands out from the crowd -- it's been the ringtone on my phone for many years, and I used to have it playing in the background when I recorded an answering machine greeting in college. The song itself is mostly about mood and groove, though it builds nicely through the pre-chorus and has a cool bridge and short but effective solo that flows right back into the chorus. "Modern Day Cowboy" has nice atmosphere and good energy, though its verses borrow a bit from Def Leppard's "Foolin'", and the rhythm guitar is pretty boring. The singer's performance is strong, though, and the solos are solid. Nice outro, too. Never heard "Red Alert" before, but that opening gives me bad "Dive! Dive! Dive!" flashbacks (perhaps Bruce was inspired by them?) and the main riff is very heavily influenced by Def Leppard's "Another Hit And Run". The vocal melodies are pretty forgettable here, but the solos are great. All things considered, the Tesla song was pretty decent, but sorry @DJ James, that Lixx track doesn't really hold up, and I have to go with my almost-nominee here. Winner: Ratt - "Lay It Down"

"Sancta Terra" has some pretty low-rent synth strings, and the singer is doing her best Amy Lee impersonation here while the band mostly apes Nightwish. The song construction is actually pretty good, but there's nothing original going on here. "The Seven Angels" starts with nice atmosphere and builds to some good hooks, even if it's all a little more Broadway than I'd prefer. Still not a fan of the quirks of Sammet's voice, and the guest singers are a mixed bag, but the song has a unique voice and is generally more up my alley, even if it runs a bit too long. Sorry, @Wogmidget, but I have to go with @Poto's nominee here. Winner: Avantasia - "The Seven Angels"

"Heathen Tribes" builds a nice acoustic groove that works less well during the distorted sections. The vocals are a bit uncontrolled and tend to warble around the notes without always hitting them, and the guitar leads later in the song similarly meander around without a lot of direction. There's about 4-5 minutes of musical content here spread out over nearly double that time, but finding a groove and sitting in it too long is pretty much Primordial's thing, from what I can tell. Not bad, but not great. "Treacherous Gods" has crisper guitars and more interesting rhythmic play, but then come the crummy extreme vocals. At least they're broken up by periodic clean vocals, albeit amateurish ones. Normally this would be an easy call for me, but the music in the Ensiferum song is significantly better, its vocals are half clean, and the vocals in the Primordial song aren't great; so, sorry @Perun, but I think I have to go with @Poto's nominee again. Winner: Ensiferum - "Treacherous Gods"

"The Unforgiven" is overrated and overplayed for sure, but it has great atmosphere, a great performance from Hetfield, and a great solo. The hard verse / soft chorus approach is cool, too. It's oversimplified and repeats itself too much, but that's the Black Album for you. "Slime And Punishment" has cool riffage and a great solo, but lame nonmelodic punk vocals throughout, and there just isn't that much to latch onto here. Sorry, @DJ James, but this is an easy win for the list nominee. Winner: Metallica - "The Unforgiven"

"The Mighty Masturbator" has a few cool proggy musical themes in it, but it's just sooooooo drawn out, and when it devolves into carnival music it completely loses me. I started checking the clock regularly around the 4 minute mark and being regularly disappointed by how much of the track was still left. Yeah, that's 16.5 minutes of my life gone forever. Oof. "Through The Looking Glass" is also gratuitously proggy, but it's so much more appealing on every level, this one isn't even remotely close. Congratusorrylations, @Shmoolikipod, but Symphony X takes this in a walk. Winner: Symphony X - "Through The Looking Glass"

"Dreaming Neon Black" has a nice backward intro and acoustic verse. The singer is really trying to be Geoff Tate during this part, but not quite getting there. The heavier chorus goes more Type O Negative and works on that level, I suppose. Solid solo. Not really on board with the vocal melodies here, though, and the vocals in general are a mixed bag. "Rediscovery, Pt. II" has great proggy music throughout (as usual), though some of the vocal melodies and phrasing early on aren't the best. Strangely, I kind of like the Broadway bit near the middle. The queasy bit later on after the synth solo is also really cool. Yeah, no contest here -- @Stardust's nominee takes it easily. Winner: Symphony X - "Rediscovery, Pt. II"

 

[Diesel 11]

the singer is doing her best Amy Lee impersonation here while the band mostly apes Nightwish.

I feel like someone’s brain is imploding with this comment.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

I feel like someone’s brain is imploding with this comment.

You say that like it's a bad thing.


Also, fun fact, I believe Simone (and the rest of he band at the time) is the only metal musician I've ever met in person - it was in 2007 at the Masters of Rock festival in Czechia - they had a tent set up next to the stage, handing out autographs and greetings. I actually hadn't known anything about the band beforehand - my friend had insisted we have to go see them, "it's that bloke from After Forever's new project" - I actually liked them a lot and I remember when we met her afterwards, we were both pretty astonished and lost for words and behaved altogether weirdly, being teenagers and all.

I'm not really sure, out of me and my friend, who was it that only made these inarticulate, strangled noises and who spouted something inappropriate like "you're like a queen, a beacon that shines through a starlit sky," or something along that lines, but I remember she actually blushed a bit and laughed and took a photo with us - which, sadly didn't outlast my mobile phone (it was a V-shape Motorola which was probably lucky enough as is for even having a camera), which I was never quite forgiven by my friend.

 

[Shmoolikipod]

Lay It Down has a good riff, but the song isn't outstanding. It is next to these other two songs though. Modern Day Cowboy has less annoying vocals but it's way overlong. Red Alert is just not great.

Kind of disappointed by Avantasia. This wasn't really as good as The Scarecrow, some parts are kind of weak even I'd say. Some of it is too cliche for me. As a whole, nothing blew me away. Epica provided pretty much what I expected, honestly better than I expected. I dug this song. I'm prone to long song bias but I know where to draw the line.

Heathen Tribes isn't too different from other Primordial songs to my ears, so... good. I'm not big on them, and I don't dislike them either, they're just a very niche listening for me. Ensiferum does really cool folky melodic things with great riffing. Great energies.

Exactly 05.666 seconds into the Municipal Waste song they lost. This vocalist crapped in my ear; I dub him Unforgiven.

Through the Looking Glass is at least as great as The Odyssey or The Divine Wings of Tragedy, and gets maybe a quarter of the praise. Parts I and II are fantastic and set up the stage for part III and let me tell you, this is one of the best choruses I have ever heard. All of the band members are great here. Even Romeo's solos, which are usually just noodly, are memorable. We even get a bass solo! This song nails it in basically every aspect. Magical stuff.

Now, on the less magical front, we have Devin's insane circus of a song, and I'm HERE for it. It's funny, because TTLG is very structured for a prog epic, with the motif and whatnot, while The Mighty Masturbator just slams idea after idea at you. Cohesiveness in music is something I often think about, and there's something liberating about this stream of consciousness writing. No wondering if this chorus fits that song better, or if there should be another verse here. Instead of the song fitting a formula, the song molds the formula around it, and it has more identity for it. Of course, the parts also have to not suck, but luckily TMM has no wasted moment. The crushing guitars after the intro. The noodling section. A fucking party at the end of the universe with some demonic shrieking towards the end there, the madness that follows.

All I'm going to say is that the Deconstruction album is a masterpiece and really takes a lot of listens to sink in but is worth the attention. This game is really the wrong venue for it though. I would have nominated something like Planet of the Apes or Juular for a more accessible choice, or something from a different album altogether.

I completely agree. I loved it at first listen, most people probably won't like it even with multiple listens. Maybe it will earworm someone here and they'll try it again. Anyways, don't worry, I took this into account and remembered to nominate a much more accessible track.

Spoiler

Yes, I nominated the title track too.

I must say, V has Fallen hard in my rankings. I don't know what it is, but it feels lacking compared of the other releases. Rediscovery is a little all over the place. The best parts are the piano assisted verse at 2:10 and the part that belongs in a musical at 4:30, other than that? Not terrible, but far from the best. Dreaming Neon Black is utterly beautiful. Pretty much a flawless song. Warrell Dane had a great voice.

 

[srfc]

Ratt - Lay It Down vs. Tesla - Modern Day Cowboy vs Lixx - Red Alert
Not familiar with any of the tracks, although I've seen Tesla live and have heard Ratt's Out of the Cellar before. all three tracks are a similar standard of hair metal, enjoyable enough but I wouldn't be too intrigued to check out anymore off the back of those tracks. Tesla probably have the more accomplished song of the three Modern Day Cowboy

Epica - Sancta Terra vs. Avantasia - The Seven Angels
This Epica track is doing nothing for me, I don't think the metal on offer here is good enough for me to overlook my prejudices against the rest of the music. Didn't get time to listen to all of the Avantasia track, but the metal here was good enough, plus you've got Dio and lyrics lifted from Moonchild, so they were always getting the vote The Seven Angels

Primordial - Heathen Tribes vs. Ensiferum - Treacherous Gods
Primordial never click with me, I'm not 100% certain why, I don't dislike what they do, but they don't grab me. Maybe a bit of Averill's delivery is too pretentious and pompous. Also, I feel they get away with stuff Maiden would be crucified for, 8 minutes of one groove. Ensiferum was better than what I was expecting, but I won't be buying an album in the morning Treacherous Gods

Metallica - The Unforgiven vs. Municipal Waste - Slime and Punishment
Municipal Waste was enjoyable enough, but pretty derivative of Overkill. No chance versus the best track on the biggest metal album of all time. The Unforgiven

Devin Townsend Project - The Mighty Masturbator vs. Symphony X - Through the Looking Glass
Devin Townsend video wouldn't play for me, I'm a bit pushed for time this week and there was a link to a live version that was 16 mins, and I don't have time for that. If he wins I'll give the track a play in the next round, saying that the title already has me having a prejudicial opinion about it. Symphony X seems fairly competent but I have no interest in this type of metal. Through the Looking Glass

Nevermore - Dreaming Neon Black vs. Symphony X - Rediscovery, Pt II
Nevermore was a bit second tier with it reminding me a bit of grungified metal like Alter Bridge, not great. See above for Symphony X, I'll go with Nevermore since Symphony X kind of got my vote by default in the last round. Dreaming Neon Black

 

[JudasMyGuide]

plus you've got Dio

Dunno if you're joking but there's no Dio on the track, the vocalists are Tobias Sammett, Michael Kiske, Oliver Hartmann, Kai Hansen, David DeFeis, Rob Rock, Andre Matos and Timo Tolkki

 

[srfc]

Dunno if you're joking but there's no Dio on the track, the vocalists are Tobias Sammett, Michael Kiske, Oliver Hartmann, Kai Hansen, David DeFeis, Rob Rock, Andre Matos and Timo Tolkki

Could have sworn I heard him, someone is doing a pretty good impression!

 

[Diesel 11]

The hair band match is super tough. Not for Lixx, I mean. Boring-ass song, should've skipped it on my playlist, waste of four minutes and this round is already long enough. No, it's super tough for Tesla and Ratt, because both of these songs are pretty much my favorites from the two bands. Tesla's is a really good hard rocker that's catchy and tough and has a super cool lyrical concept about how the iconic cowboy vibes have evolved over time; and then Ratt have this incredible riff that I didn't realize which uses drop D tuning in a very different way than a lot of artists do, definitely post-grunge anyway. Also a catchy song - and I really never hated the band's singer, I like how he's got some street styles with a little bit of an effeminate vibe. To me that helped them stand-out. I'm going to go with Ratt but I won't be sad if Tesla take it because they've got a worthy competitor and mostly I just don't wanna hear Lixx again.

Epica have a shorter track that clashes musically a bit but in a calculated fashion. Can't say I'm the biggest fan, but I don't hate this group. I need to dedicate some time to listen through their discography because the stuff I've liked I've loved. Avantasia are far better on "The Seven Angels" than on "The Scarecrow". Nothing much to hate in this song. It's cheesy as hell but even then it kinda wins you over. The chorus is an earworm for sure, and I love the dual guitar that pops up now and then. Also @JudasMyGuide I relistened to that part and you're right, it's totally Steinman tribute. Easy vote for Avantasia here, hoping we get some more Epica tracks with a bit more to them next time.

Almost forgot about Primordial vs Ensiferum as I was writing this. On the one hand, overlong boring Celtic nonsense I don't care about; on the other hand, power metal melodeath about fighting Thor or some shit I don't care about. Frankly I did not care about nor like these songs and I do not want to hear them again. I'll be voting for ---------------------------- because silence would be more pleasing to my ears.

Municipal Waste is a joke and another song I should've skipped, even though that would've only saved me two minutes. I mean, the riffing is tight but unmemorable, the vocals are borderline parody and the solo wasn't even good. Awful gang vocals too. "The Unforgiven" is flat out perfect, although they could've scaled back on the outro a bit. James is so raw and emotional in this track, it's immense; and I don't think I'll ever be a Kirk fan but this is one of those songs where it works. It's not a perfect solo but you can just feel how much fun and also how moving it is to play it. Lars's drumming is also powerful as hell even in the quiet moments, which is a cool mix. Additionally I think that simplifying their sound on the self-titled and eventually also the Loads allowed them to add a contemplative darkness that really pulls me in, and this song has that going on for sure. Metallica need to stop bringing their A-game to these match-ups or the final rounds will just be them vs each other.

Devin. Devin Devin Devin why. Why would you do this to me. Why would you make me sit through 16 minutes of the most repetitive prog wankery that's a parody of prog wankery. You sound like if Will Wood and the Tapeworms had tapeworms and electric guitars. Ridiculous and so incredibly boring too. Symphony X get this by default and it's not even one of my favorite epics from them. But I mean, the intro is amazing, the chorus soars so high, and the piano-led section before Part II is superb. When it finally all comes back around at the end you're truly living.

I actually did enjoy the Nevermore track quite a lot, although the vocals do confuse me a bit. I also don't think the song is perfectly connected from part to part. I liked the addition of female vocals though, and the chorus is awesome. @Jer is right that it sounds like Type O Negative, which might explain why. I think I actually played it in one of the early rounds of the GMAC, which would explain why I feel like it's familiar to me. Meanwhile, "Rediscovery - Part II (The New Mythology)" is awesome, an epic finale to V. I do think it works a lot better in the context of the album, though; the song as a whole feels more like a connection of loose parts that all work together until the grand finale. You can tell that a lot of these pieces were written as part of an even bigger track that was supposed to cap off Twilight in Olympus. As an album closer it's awesome, as a song by itself it doesn't quite hit you the same way, but I still love it. Honestly I'm gonna throw Nevermore a pity vote here just because that chorus is super great and because it's losing hard, but Symphony X do have the better song.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

In the first matchup, all three songs were pretty nice, but Tesla was easily the best. Now I'm wondering why I had not heard of the band before.

Shockingly, I'm voting for Epica against Avantasia. I like Avantasia a lot, but I prefer the newer albums over this. I haven't really tried to get properly into Epica but this was potentially the best song of theirs that I've heard.

The third battle was an interesting one with two quite unique bands. I think I liked the Celtic elements of Primordial a bit more but both songs were certainly worthy inclusions.

Municipal Waste are generic thrash, which means that they're pretty damn great. Unfortunately, generic thrash isn't enough to beat one of the greatest metal ballads of all time, Metallica's The Unforgiven.

I respect Devin but his music isn't really for me. I skipped this track before the halfway mark. Through the Looking Glass is pretty forgettable apart from the intro which rips off two Dream Theater songs at the same time. It's still a pleasant listen, so Symphony X takes this one easily.

Nevermore is one of those bands that I've been meaning to get into, but this song didn't exactly blow me away. Warrel Dane sounds like Geoff Tate at certain points, which is a plus. I'm starting to get the feeling that this game features far too many Symphony X songs, and much like Through the Looking Glass, this isn't one of their more exciting songs either. My vote won't make much difference so I'll just vote for the underdog.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

In the first matchup, all three songs were pretty nice, but Tesla was easily the best. Now I'm wondering why I had not heard of the band before.

They had a song in GTA: Vice City (Cumin' Atcha Live), that's where I heard about them anyway, because me and schoolmates knew the entire soundtrack by heart.

I like Avantasia a lot, but I prefer the newer albums over this

Now that's a take I didn't ever expect to see.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

They had a song in GTA: Vice City (Cumin' Atcha Live), that's where I heard about them anyway, because me and schoolmates knew the entire soundtrack by heart.



Now that's a take I didn't ever expect to see.

Right, I have Vice City for PS2 but I only played it a couple of times.

I don't think having a preference for newer Avantasia is that much of a hot take even if the first two albums remain as classics. I'll have to relisten to everything to know for sure where everything lands but I can already tell that Moonglow and A Paranormal Evening are going to be very high up on my list.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Right, I have Vice City for PS2 but I only played it a couple of times.

I don't think having a preference for newer Avantasia is that much of a hot take even if the first two albums remain as classics. I'll have to relisten to everything to know for sure where everything lands but I can already tell that Moonglow and A Paranormal Evening are going to be very high up on my list.

It's not to the level of saying "my favourite Queensryche album is American Soldier", but usually I see people preferring the first two. Sammett himself says he isn't satisfied with those, but I've always took that as that typical "our newest album is the best album, the most 'us' album, you know? I think we really grew as songwriters", even if the band is promoting some mediocre shit and can't re-capture the lightning in a bottle.

I actually like all of Avantasia - and miles above Edguy at that (I think he was really clever to discern which project is more worth it) - and my classic era consists of all the first five albums and I think the project is very consistent (apart from Paranormal Evening, sorry, but I'll give it more listens in the future).

It's just .. the first two albums were the first, the most "classic-european-power-homage", had the most "cult" atmosphere, with everyone being astonished at how many of those old geezers he brought together... nostalgia plays a role, definitely.

But Metal Opera, Pts 1 and 2 are among my top-top-top go to power metal albums (and power metal is quite likely my favourite metal subgenre of them all).

IRYO though.

(P. S. - also, when I was a rock/metal radio DJ between 2008-2010, I think it was the older Avantasia stuff that people responded to more cheerfully, but that's anecdotical and my memory may be misleading me)

 

[Poto]

I don't think having a preference for newer Avantasia is that much of a hot take even if the first two albums remain as classics. I'll have to relisten to everything to know for sure where everything lands but I can already tell that Moonglow and A Paranormal Evening are going to be very high up on my list.

Of the recent Avantasia albums, Ghostlights is a great album in my opinion. Let the Storm Descend Upon You is their best song.

A Paranormal Evening was a big disappointment.

 

[MindRuler]

Of the recent Avantasia albums, Ghostlights is a great album in my opinion.

Moonglow too!