"The Book of Souls" - Official pre-release thread (CONTAINS ALBUM SPOILERS)

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

@CriedWhenBrucieLeft lovely how Steve himself makes parallels with Fear of the Dark, isn't it?

Lovely isn't the first word that springs to mind, no.

 

[Travis The Dragon]

Thanks Harrisdevot for the scans! I'll check those out when I get the chance.

 

[The Flash]

The word you're looking for is "arrangement". It's something you'll see credited in jazz often.

I used that word in the same post you just quoted. Not what I mean there. I meant the composition of individual tracks for respective instruments.

I always thought music credits were odd .. I guess "publishing" is really an accurate term given they lyrics are what gets the credit. I kind of prefer bands that just credit the song to the band ... I know there is a financial hit to that, but in this day and age of limited actual music sales, I think it matters much less than it used to

I'm the exact opposite. I prefer when bands credit members instead of the whole band. Maybe that's the obsessive archivist in me speaking, but hey.

 

[bearfan]

I used that word in the same post you just quoted. Not what I mean there. I meant the composition of individual tracks for respective instruments.



I'm the exact opposite. I prefer when bands credit members instead of the whole band. Maybe that's the obsessive archivist in me speaking, but hey.

Maybe they can go hockey and have the "scorer" and give the rest of the band a primary or secondary assist. My reasoning is that while the words are clearly important to a song, the drums, bass line, solos, riffs, etc all combine to make the song what it is (good or bad) with Maiden, I suspect the everyone adds something to the song that would have been lacking if it were just the credited writer

 

[harrisdevot]

I think for most of us, the main problem is not exactly who wrote a song, but how it was written. And it is frustrating to realize that the credits don't give a very realistic insight to this process. I love those early interviews were Steve said, in substance, I wrote the song, but Adrian came with the idea of the leaks at the beginning, and so on... You can see how a song is building up to the final result.

 

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

@CriedWhenBrucieLeft lovely how Steve himself makes parallels with Fear of the Dark, isn't it?

What parallels did he make, btw? Did he mention how TBOS had tracks right up there with The Fugitive for complexity?

 

[bearfan]

What parallels did he make, btw? Did he mention how TBOS had tracks right up there with The Fugitive for complexity?

I'm not sure I can take 92 minutes of that complexity. I might need to hold off on this album until after I get a doctorate.

 

[Mosh]

I used that word in the same post you just quoted. Not what I mean there. I meant the composition of individual tracks for respective instruments.

That's arrangement. You'll see it in jazz a lot because it's common to take a tune and rearrange it for a different set of instruments, such as a big band. Typically somebody writes the melody and the chord progression, somebody else takes that and arranges it for their own group. This can even happen within the group: Gil Evans was well known for taking melodies by Miles Davis and arranging them for various groups of instruments, he was always credited in the liner notes and his name even appeared on the front sleeve occasionally. Manipulating the structure of the song often falls into this category too, which you'll see in big band a lot. In a normal jazz combo, the melody is short and works as a vehicle for improv. A big band needs to elongate the melody a bit.

Credits work differently for rock/metal generally and usually arrangements aren't acknowledged, mostly because the creative process is slightly different. For a band like Maiden, arrangements seems to be a group effort. My guess is Bruce came up with all the melodies and chord progressions and the rest of the band found their own way to translate that on their instruments. They probably took some liberties of their own, but not enough to earn a writing credit. Just like Nicko doesn't get credit for making a drum part or the guitarists don't get credits for taking a guitar solo. The band may have had input on what the structure should be as well, although that sort of input tends to get credited more in rock music, not sure how that works in Maiden.

 

[blindg3]

This is gonna be a long summer!

 

[The Flash]

That's arrangement. You'll see it in jazz a lot because it's common to take a tune and rearrange it for a different set of instruments, such as a big band. Typically somebody writes the melody and the chord progression, somebody else takes that and arranges it for their own group. This can even happen within the group: Gil Evans was well known for taking melodies by Miles Davis and arranging them for various groups, he was always credited in the liner notes and his name even appeared on the front sleeve occasionally. Manipulating the structure of the song falls into this category too, which you'll see in big band a lot. In a normal jazz combo, the melody is short and works as a vehicle for improv. A big band needs to elongate the melody a bit.

Credits work differently for rock/metal generally and usually arrangements aren't acknowledged, mostly because the creative process is slightly different. For a band like Maiden, arrangements seems to be a group effort. My guess is Bruce came up with all the melodies and chord progressions and the rest of the band found their own way to translate that on their instruments. They probably took some liberties of their own, but not enough to earn a writing credit. Just like Nicko doesn't get credit for making a drum part or the guitarists don't get credits for taking a guitar solo. The band may have had input on what the structure should be as well, although that sort of input tends to get credited more in rock music, not sure how that works in Maiden.

It is indeed called arrangement, had a mindfuck for a moment.

 

[Night Prowler]

My guess is Bruce came up with all the melodies and chord progressions and the rest of the band found their own way to translate that on their instruments.

That's my take too. I'm 100% sure that no one really tells Nicko how to play each beat, or Adrian how to play each solo. Obviously there are exceptions like Where Eagles Dare drum intro, but that's about it.

 

[Forostar]

Sometimes it happens that Nicko is exactly told how to drum. E.g., I remember an interview in which it was revealed that 'Arry instructed Nicko how to drum on Blood Brothers (the exact beat). Some songs lend themselves for a tight pattern, from which he should not divert, but most give some more individual room.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

It is indeed called arrangement, had a mindfuck for a moment.

If the Maidenfans collaboration should ever do a Queensrÿche cover, it should be called Operation: Mindfuck.

 

[Travis The Dragon]

Just because a song is really long doesn't mean it's progressive. I don't think Rime, Sign or Wild Wind are progressive at all. Starblind is much shorter than these songs, yet way more progressive.

Depends how you define "progressive": Drawn out Dream Theater progressive, or a song that actually progresses from previous work (e.g. Blind Guardian)

I think Genghis Khan and Losfer Words (Big 'Orra) are very progressive. Not every long Maiden song is progressive as in the classic template of progressive bands (the 2 instrumentals I mentioned have more of these elements than lots of long Maiden songs)!

Maiden (Steve) created an unique way to make their own prog thing which has strong reference with being like a soundtrack to a storytelling.

I personally have 2 definitions of progressive. The main one that is described in Wikipedia that bands like Dream Theater have. And my secondary one which is songs that don't follow a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle instrumental section with solos and such-ending verse-chorus. So, for me, most of Maiden's progressive songs would follow my secondary definition such as Hallowed, To Tame A Land, Rime, the title track of No Prayer, Dance Of Death, Paschendale, and Wild Wind. And I guess songs that have a verse-chorus-verse chorus in the first half and then change in the second half could be progressive. Such as Seventh Son and The Legacy. I would definitely not consider Starblind progressive though since it again follows a verse-chorus pattern.

 

[Mosh]

Sometimes it happens that Nicko is exactly told how to drum. E.g., I remember an interview in which it was revealed that 'Arry instructed Nicko how to drum on Blood Brothers (the exact beat). Some songs lend themselves for a tight pattern, from which he should not divert, but most give some more individual room.

This probably has a lot to do with Steve writing the bassline first too. For particularly involved bass patterns I imagine Nicko has less room to do his own thing.

 

[Maturin]

After reading the Kerrang-article, I quote myself from page 6 in this thread:

Most interesting song on the record, without a doubt. 18 minutes and written by Bruce alone? There's nothing like it in the catalogue, of course. I think we'll get drawn out, lone acoustic or even piano-driven sections with a lot of storytelling. Did I say piano? Yes, if there ever was room for something like this, why not now?

Looks like my 'premonition' about a piano was at least partly correct. We'll just have to wait and see if some actual piano made it into the final track.

 

[blindg3]

I personally have 2 definitions of progressive. The main one that is described in Wikipedia that bands like Dream Theater have. And my secondary one which is songs that don't follow a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle instrumental section with solos and such-ending verse-chorus. So, for me, most of Maiden's progressive songs would follow my secondary definition such as Hallowed, To Tame A Land, Rime, the title track of No Prayer, Dance Of Death, Paschendale, and Wild Wind. And I guess songs that have a verse-chorus-verse chorus in the first half and then change in the second half could be progressive. Such as Seventh Son and The Legacy. I would definitely not consider Starblind progressive though since it again follows a verse-chorus pattern.

So, Mother Russia is progressive to you?

 

[Travis The Dragon]

So, Mother Russia is progressive to you?

Maybe not that one as much as others because it begins with all verses and then has an instrumental part in the middle and ends in the same type of verse. It definitely has more of a progressive feel to it than the other songs on No Prayer though. I guess the title track also has that feel to it since it begins with the all slow part and completely changes in the second half or so. Something like that.

 

[Gk1]

As also stated somewhere else in here...I think the only real progressive track Maiden ever produced was STARBLIND

 

[Mega]

What? Maiden made a lot progressive songs. Alexander The Great comes to mind, with its mid section using 14/8 (IIRC) and whatever musical mode they are using there.