The Book of Souls: General album discussion

SixesAlltheway said:
There's some slow intros there but this time it has been chosen very carefully. Yes, nods to Losfer, Wasted Years, some SIT stuff...but overall I'm in agreement with you - also with this:



My favorite four tracks on the album :)
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There is a nice variety in the way songs begin and end on this album (some slower intros and steady builds, some that start with an immediate bang). The long intros/outros worked very well for AMOLAD, but for this album, which is also a bit dark overall but more thematically varied than AMOLAD, the variety provides welcome movement and energy. What I don't like is how the vocal melodies start out in such a high register for several songs in a row on disc 1.

Also enjoying the same four songs quite a bit--disc 2 is definitely stronger in my opinion!
 
Startripper said:
Agree with you here! I haven't been able to figure out the identity of the album yet. Maiden haven't been self-referential since their "Iron Maiden" song in 1980, and that's something I really respect them for. They don't have to pander to that sort of thing. I would rather hear all original melodies and riffs, than repurposed ones, even if this was an intentional move. Maybe these repeated bits and pieces are supposed to be a shout-out to the biggest fans? If so, I hope it will be a temporary experiment.
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Thing is, if it's a shout-out, it feels like a bit of a piss-take. Almost saying, "Here's the same old stuff again, thanks very much". It's lazy at least.
I can understand new fans lapping it up, but long-term fans? Weird. :\
 
Yeah, I thought about compiling a list of all the references people have been hearing (musically and lyrically) just to try to understand the bands' motivation for that. There are some good points above how some riffs may sound the same, but if you were to play them side-by-side, they take different paths. Yet, I don't have the sharpest ear, and on FIRST listen I caught the Rime rhythm in TRATB, the Legacy riff in EOTC, and my first thought was, wow, this is Wasted Years all over again for SOTV. It would have been better if Maiden could have tried a little harder to make these segments even more different. Because once you get those melodies in your head, it's hard to concentrate on the new song instead of the older one--and leads to unfair comparisons.
 
I can see the Rime rhythm now it's brought up but the vocal and guitar bits still make it hugely different. I also don't think it's entirely fair as I'm sure there are numerous examples of this sort of thing from earlier in the bands catalogue.

The Legacy in EOTC doesn't bother me because I am not an AMOLAD person anyway - to the extent you'd need to point me to the times in each respective song when it's played.

As for SOTV I think this is a different kettle of fish as it is far more obvious to the point I think it's a reference. Even still, it is sufficiently distorted and the song around it evolves differently to the point it sounds sufficiently different in context to stand on its own.

As for Loss Fer Words, have the band touched this song since its release back in 1984? Accidentally reusing a riff from this is far more plausible and forgivable than the likes of the Wasted Years intro in my mind.
 
Reviewers long before now have often lamented that Maiden recycles pieces of songs, but I've never noticed anything like that until this album, which is why it's salient for me now and makes me think it was intentional this time around. It could just be that I conditioned myself to hear these things from listening to Maiden's entire discography over and over for the past few months--combined with still not being entirely familiar with the twists and turn of the new music. To be honest, I haven't even caught the Losfer Words reference yet. I appreciate your comment (DJMayes) that in context these parts work, and the songs should be taken as a whole. These are minors distractions I'll probably stop noticing as I get more comfortable with the new songs.
 
Startripper said:
Reviewers long before now have often lamented that Maiden recycles pieces of songs, but I've never noticed anything like that until this album, which is why it's salient for me now and makes me think it was intentional this time around. It could just be that I conditioned myself to hear these things from listening to Maiden's entire discography over and over for the past few months--combined with still not being entirely familiar with the twists and turn of the new music. To be honest, I haven't even caught the Losfer Words reference yet. I appreciate your comment (DJMayes) that in context these parts work, and the songs should be taken as a whole. These are minors distractions I'll probably stop noticing as I get more comfortable with the new songs.
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The Losfer words reference isn't one I'd have picked up either, as I have probably only listened to that particular song a couple of times. I got it from others here. Given that I don't think it's been played in a very long time, I wouldn't be surprised if that one is unintentional.

The "Wasted Years" is absolutely the sticking one given it's one of their live favourites but I am almost certain it's completely intentional. I kind of expect them to deliberately play up the similarity on tour. Then again, even if it is intentional it works and is thankfully only the very start of the song. If they'd used it again in the song it would've definitely been too much and this is coming from someone who considers SOTV their 2nd favourite song off the album at this point in time.
 
Startripper said:
I've been scouring reviews for days and keeping up with the comments here to see if anything speaks to what I've been feeling about this album, and actually have found most of them to be unconditionally positive (mainly looking at the main press, and Amazon.com and Amazon.de). Metal-Archives seemed to have a fair mix of reviews though, and then this less-than-effusive one was just posted on one of my favorite metal blogs: http://www.angrymetalguy.com/iron-maiden-the-book-of-souls-review/
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This is a pretty thoughtful and well-reasoned review, and even though I ultimately disagree with his final verdict (2.5/5), some of his points aren't wrong. Best line of the review: "From these 93 minutes, an excellent 75 minute record exists." I do agree that a little more disciplined editing would have made this album markedly better. But I still think it's pretty damn good as it is.
 
I hope the enthusiasm translates to the live stage and they play a good chunk of it. They don't have to do all of it, but they should do more than half IMO.
 
From that Nicko interview:

He added: "I spoke to Steve the other week and I asked what we might do live, and I said to him, 'Why don't we do the freaking lot?' He laughed. Can you imagine IRON MAIDEN playing 'The Book Of Souls'? It would end with 'Empire Of The Clouds' and then it would be 'thank you' and 'good night.' There is no 'Iron Maiden', no 'Run To The Hills' and none of the classics.
Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ir...est-album-weve-ever-made/#mIcDIghePIxU3dEE.99
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Nicko is on board with the right plan. One down, five to go!
 
Don't their shows run closer to 2 hours? Play the album, end with Iron Maiden, start the encore with Number of the Beast and end with Hallowed. :D
 
Mosh said:
Don't their shows run closer to 2 hours? Play the album, end with Iron Maiden, start the encore with Number of the Beast and end with Hallowed. :D
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They seem to generally be about 100-110 minutes, I think, not quite two hours. But if they did play the whole album in full, I bet that's what the end of the set would look like.
 
I think they stick to 100 minute shows so audiences can catch the last train home. In Denver, there's noise ordinances; they had to cut the Gimme Ed show here by 3 songs to finish on time. Same in some other cities; I can't recall where exactly, but two other US cities got the same 3-song cut that tour.

Of course, noise laws don't apply at Red Rocks... which Maiden have only played twice, and not since 2000. It's time for another show there.
 
I have a different take on the "recycled material" observations:
There may parts of certain songs that recall old Maiden material, but there is very little here where an entire composition mirrors another song.

You can't say there is anything at all in the catalogue that mirrors Eternity, Unknown, TR&TB, River, Souls, Clown, Sorrows or Empire in terms of a combination of melodies, rhythms, arrangement and structure.

You could say Speed of Light is the same "type" of song as 2 Minutes to Midnight, but its melodies and riffs are all its own. I've called Death and Glory the bastard child of Running Free and Aces High, but that's about feel. Musically there's not much in common. To me, Shadows of the Valley is the only song with hooks that are strongly reminiscent of other songs, and that is more Fallen Angel verse rhythms and Lord of Light atmosphere, not that brief Wasted Years intro.

I think the band made a conscious effort to step away from reliable structures. Solos pop up in weird places and styles. Song patterns are arranged in different ways. Repetition is minimized.

I sense some paralysis by analysis here:
EVERY SONG ON THIS ALBUM IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER SONG ON THIS ALBUM.
How many band can do this on a 45-minute record, let alone for 92 minutes?
 
Startripper said:
this less-than-effusive one was just posted on one of my favorite metal blogs: http://www.angrymetalguy.com/iron-maiden-the-book-of-souls-review/
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I have to react on this, because I see it repeated again and again in reviews, for instance:

The title track “The Book of Souls” is a Gers and Harris piece, and likely my favorite song on the album, but it still could lose two minutes on acoustic brackets at the front and back.
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It could lose them, but then also lose a part of the story:

The Mid-Distance Runner said:
The flamenco melody played by a single acoustic guitar at the beginning creates an image of deathly silence after the Mayan civilisation was destroyed by the Spanish.
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I think it's more important (for the author) to tell the story right than to "cut to the chase already". People really have the attention span of a gnat these days, as Janick said.

They also could have cut the most of the "repetitive boring boat shit" off Rime, but then they would not have made the atmosphere of floating endlessly on the sea, anxious with each new repetition of the theme that it would end, and realizing "no, no wind yet"
 
Forostar said:
I hear a difference in that Dio song Wingman!

HD: taa-tatataa-tatataa-taa-taa, taa-tatataa-tatataaaaa-taa
Rime: taa-tatataa tatataa tatataa tatataa tatataa tatataa
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I was referring to the verse in Holy Diver - there the steady ta -tatata - tatata -tatata - goes on longer. I don't think the part in The Red and the Black is any more similar to Rime than to Holy Diver or other rock/metal songs using that rhythm (except guitar tone, of course).
 
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