The Bomber of Lockerbie is free

Zare said:
Yup, those guys smashed WTC. But they weren't terrorists, and al'qaeda doesn't exist.
Those people took the "way of jihad" only because of hard cash. Their families are now safe with lots of green stuff to live with.

The point is they're still terrorists by the very definition of that word regardless of their personal feelings/ideologies.  All you've done here to defend youself is just re-defined the word in order to get out of the corner you put yourself in.
 
Zare, are you wearing a tinfoil hat as you write this? What is your proof that al Qaeda doesn't exist? Where did you get this idea from?
 
cornfedhick said:
The problem with elaborate government conspiracy theories like Zare's (well, one of MANY problems) is that they assume government workers are really, really smart.  They aren't.  Maybe elsewhere in the world, but not here.  Most (not all) American politicians and bureaucrats are either dumb or lazy.  Often both.    

An even bigger problem is that they assume large amounts of government workers would actually be willing to go through with it. Think about how many people would need to be involved in such a conspiracy. What would their motivations be? And wouldn't somebody have come clean by now?
 
Zare said:
Yup, those guys smashed WTC. But they weren't terrorists, and al'qaeda doesn't exist.
Those people took the "way of jihad" only because of hard cash. Their families are now safe with lots of green stuff to live with.

I think your view their religion is very skewed.  But, whatever.  You believe as you choose.

You really think that your gov't is ruling your country?
I'm laughing my ass off...

What do you mean by this?  Of course they make the laws and impliment them.  But, are you actually trying to say that everything that happens in my country is because of the gov't?  If that is so, you must travel outside of your own little world.
 
I think your view their religion is very skewed.  But, whatever.  You believe as you choose.

Point is - they didn't do it 'cause Allah said so. They did it for the money.

What do you mean by this?  Of course they make the laws and impliment them.  But, are you actually trying to say that everything that happens in my country is because of the gov't?  If that is so, you must travel outside of your own little world.

Of course they make the laws, but those laws favour certain groups of influential people, who got politicians on their positions in the first place.

Hence, your gov't is nothing more than an operating hand for a group of individuals.

What is your proof that al Qaeda doesn't exist? Where did you get this idea from?

I'm sorry, i can't say more on public forums. I don't want to trigger every layer 7 trap around.

The point is they're still terrorists by the very definition of that word regardless of their personal feelings/ideologies.

Use your brain. They aren't religious terrorists, obviously.
 
Zare said:
I'm sorry, i can't say more on public forums. I don't want to trigger every layer 7 trap around.

:lol: Looks like you got us all there. You certainly did fool me for a while.  :D
 
Back on the original topic, I have no problem with the Lockerbie bomber being freed, the reasons behind him being blamed are rather dubious as it is. He was a fall guy.
 
My problem is the connections with the BP agreement, no matter if he's sick or not.
And if Jack Straw told it, I don't have a reason to search further...
 
Quetzalcoatlus said:
My problem is the connections with the BP agreement, no matter if he's sick or not.
And if Jack Straw told it, I don't have a reason to search further...
As I said earlier, it was a decision and action taken by the Scottish government and Jack Straw has absolutely nothing to do with them. He can't influence them in any way. And this BP agreement is unlikely to help the Scots directly.

The Scots will never be swayed by pressure from Westminster, they're way too stubborn and proud for that. ;)
 
Albie said:
The Scots will never be swayed by pressure from Westminster, they're way too stubborn and proud for that. ;)

"It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!"
willie.jpg
 
Albie said:
And this BP agreement is unlikely to help the Scots directly.

Not directly, this is under-the-table money  :D
Seriously, I don't know, I'm a kind of suspicious with such things
it's not me fault though - I'm a Mediterranean number  :halo:

The Scots will never be swayed by pressure from Westminster, they're way too stubborn and proud for that.

From another planet these Scots huh ?  :lol:
 
Looks like you got us all there. You certainly did fool me for a while.

Bah. But i was serious about USA gov't being ran by private lobbies.
 
Ran? No. Heavily influenced? Yes.

EDIT: I should elaborate on this.

Like it or not, the people who run the US government are politicians, and I firmly believe that the majority is upright about it. There are always some black sheep who are in it only for power and money, but the majority have dedicated their lives to the American democracy, Democrat or Republican. Some of them have their own particular views of what is best for their country, and these views may not be shared by the rest of the political scene - or the rest of the world for that matter. But I don't doubt that they are upright about it.
However, there comes a moment in the life of most politicians, where they have to compromise. That is no different in the US, in Germany, in Croatia or anywhere else. Most politicians have some goals and views they put above others. Someone who devotes their life to fighting social injustice might not, for example, be very interested in environmental issues. They might have formulated a view on the matter, but it is not very interesting for them to pursue it, so they leave that for others. Keep that in mind.

Now, the US is a huge country -both geographically and population-wise-, and there is a comparatively big number of people who are interested in politics. It is really confusing for a non-American to get so much as an overview over what there is for an American to vote for. But one thing is important: If you want to become a high-ranking politician, you need to get your face known. You need to travel the country, be it your state or the entire nation. You need to talk to the people everywhere, in every big city and preferably some small ones as well. You need to show the people that you command a team of trustworthy individuals who will put your ideas into action, and you need to send them across the country too. All this costs a lot of money. Even those politicians from rich families who have been influential politicians for generations, such as the Kennedys or the Bushes don't have enough money for such a campaign. So they need supporters. Those supporters are usually private people or companies, and yes, their intent is to have a say when the politician gets elected. They form lobbies.

The politicians need those lobbies for their time in office and future campaigns. That doesn't mean they want the money. They want the support, because you can't make politics without support. So when it comes to issues the lobbies are interested in, the politicians will try to rule things favourably for them. Usually, those are either issues the politician agrees with in the first place, or that don't interest him very much. There are of course cases in which the politician is prevented from reaching his initial goal because the lobbies were against it, but I don't really think those are particularly numerous. Most politicians will choose their supporters on the grounds that they can still achieve their goals once they're in power.

Incidentally, the lobbies themselves aren't inherently evil. Most are simply interest groups that have certain goals they want to achieve - and of course those can be arms deals, but they can also be environmental or social issues; you cannot put a sticker on every lobby, you need to judge from case to case.

As a European, I think the lobbies can be a flaw in the American system, but I nevertheless don't think they always have to be. And I have also yet to hear a good alternative on how to run such a huge country with democratic methods.
 
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