Symphony X

[MrKnickerbocker]

Spoiler

I've only listened once, but I love this album. It feels very complete, melodic, and powerful. Honestly, I didn't know Symphony X was capable of making something like this: it doesn't sound like old Symphony X and it doesn't sound like Symphonoclast X...it's something new! The songs are incredibly heavy, yet overwhelmingly melodic, the music is technically impressive as always, but the structures are not necessarily progressive.

I'll need to listen a few more times before I get to comments about individual songs, but on an individual performance level, I gotta give it up to Rullo, Pinnella, and Russell. The drums are out of this world on this album and especially impressive given Rullo's previous health problems. For all those worried about a lack of keyboards: don't be. Michael Pinnella is all over this album. There's keyboard solos, choir synths, symphonic and orchestral hits, etc.

Romeo is once again a blitzkrieg on the guitar, but if I have to be honest, the riffs and solos feel recycled. Playing is top notch, but I'd love to hear more sparse riffing and less PL/Iconoclast style note-shreds-as-rhythm-riffs. Mike LePond is stellar, but I didn't get too much up front bass upon my first listen. I'm sure his presence will be heard much more upon repeat listens.

Sir Russell gives the performance of a lifetime. I'll be the first to admit that I was skeptical after Iconoclast and his string of tough-bro garbage with Adrenaline Mob, but the man really puts his all into this recording. It's a complete vocal tour de force: the quiet cleans and soaring clear voice are back, ladies and gentlemen, but they are mixed with his newer style and a few brand new tones. He's hitting higher highs than I've ever heard him hit and he full-out guttural screams in the verses of the title track. I hear a lot of Dio in his performance on this album, and that's always a good thing, plus a little of Klaus Meine in his very top register.

Standout tracks on first listen:

• To Hell and Back
• In My Darkest Hour
• Swan Song
• Legend

 

[Mosh]

Knick loves it, NP hates it. Paradise Lost 2???

I just want something with the production and symphonic qualities of PL with the melodic sensibility of Odyssey. If this even comes close to that I'll be happy. Iconoclast was a step in the wrong direction as far as that goes.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Knick loves it, NP hates it. Paradise Lost 2???

I just want something with the production and symphonic qualities of PL with the melodic sensibility of Odyssey. If this even comes close to that I'll be happy. Iconoclast was a step in the wrong direction as far as that goes.

I would say this album stands somewhere between The Odyssey and Paradise Lost, but with the riffing style of Iconoclast. Honestly, it feels like the album they should have made before Paradise Lost.

 

[Mosh]

Awesome! That sounds perfect. The jump from Odyssey to PL always seemed bizarre to me. Like there should've been a transitional album in between those but there isn't. If Underworld is that missing link I'll be happy. I also hope they'll continue more in that direction as well.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Awesome! That sounds perfect. The jump from Odyssey to PL always seemed bizarre to me. Like there should've been a transitional album in between those but there isn't. If Underworld is that missing link I'll be happy. I also hope they'll continue more in that direction as well.

Me too, I hope they take this style and run with it.

Honestly, I don't want to get your hopes up too much for an "olden days" sound. It touches on elements from almost all of their past albums and sonically seems to fit between The Odyssey and PL, but to my ears it's also a very fresh sounding album. There's just a lot of things (especially vocally) that I haven't heard SX do before.

 

[Night Prowler]

I know what happened: someone pranked Knick by giving him The Odyssey and changing song titles. Because that's surely not how I'd describe this abomination of an album

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

As a measure of understanding, NP, how would y0u rank Underworld as compared to each post-Horror Show Iced Earth album?

 

[Mosh]

Me too, I hope they take this style and run with it.

Honestly, I don't want to get your hopes up too much for an "olden days" sound. It touches on elements from almost all of their past albums and sonically seems to fit between The Odyssey and PL, but to my ears it's also a very fresh sounding album. There's just a lot of things (especially vocally) that I haven't heard SX do before.

Nah I'm definitely not expecting a classic SX sound or for this to even come close to those two albums. I just like that you're saying its closer to the direction of those albums rather than Iconoclast. That's a sound I can get behind. Whether the songs actually connect with me remains to be seen, but I like what I've heard so far.

 

[Night Prowler]

As a measure of understanding, NP, how would y0u rank Underworld as compared to each post-Horror Show Iced Earth album?

They are all so much better than Underworld. To show I'm not that biased about IE, I'd surely rank Twilight In Olympus above Ripper and Stu albums, and only slightly ahead of Crucible. And also above the debut, but not above any of the other albums.

 

[Mosh]

Well there's the problem, NP needs to get his hearing checked!

Funny you bring it up, because I saw SX on their co headline tour with Iced Earth, so Dystopia and Iconoclast both bring up similar memories and I got to really know both at the same time. I'd often listen to them back to back to get pumped for the concert. Both are weaker albums for the band but at least have their moments. I'd probably prefer Iconoclast (those songs also came off way better live, though Dystopia songs were better live than on the album too).

The major difference for me is that while SX has taken a few wrong turns, they're still at least trying different things. Iced Earth keeps regurgitating the same formula and their music just sounds stale. So while Iconoclast isn't really a direction I want them to continue in, it still sounds fresh, while Dystopia sounds like a tired attempt to recapture SWTWC.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

They are all so much better than Underworld. To show I'm not that biased about IE, I'd surely rank Twilight In Olympus above Ripper and Stu albums, and only slightly ahead of Crucible. And also above the debut, but not above any of the other albums.

All post Horror Show albums are ludicrously inferior to Underworld. Even Crucible, despite my love of Matt Barlow, is an absolute drudge of uninspired slop. I loved Iced Earth, but come on, they haven't written a truly good album since Horror Show. The fact that you can call Underworld an "abomination" while considering those Ripper and Stu albums as something better is just silliness.

Also, you're saying you wouldn't rank Twilight above Damnation Game or Iconoclast?

Well there's the problem, NP needs to get his hearing checked!

The major difference for me is that while SX has taken a few wrong turns, they're still at least trying different things. Iced Earth keeps regurgitating the same formula and their music just sounds stale. So while Iconoclast isn't really a direction I want them to continue in, it still sounds fresh, while Dystopia sounds like a tired attempt to recapture SWTWC.

Indeed! The last 14 years of Iced Earth sound like a tired attempt to recapture SWTWC.

 

[Mosh]

Excluding the debut, I'd say SX hasn't released an album weaker than anything IE has done post Horror Show.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Excluding the debut, I'd say SX hasn't released an album weaker than anything IE has done post Horror Show.

I wholeheartedly agree, and (EDIT) I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on Underworld.

 

[Night Prowler]

Twilight In Olympus is my favorite Symphony X album. Anyway, can we please not bring IE into this again? It always ends with everyone else antagonizing me That's why I try to avoid IE discussions lately. Was the same with Opeth, but kinda got better considering I like the last album

My main problem with post-Odyssey SX, as I said before:
- Tough guy Russell vocals, and on this album, uninspired emotionless Russell
- Guitar/metal overkill aka Romeo trying to cram in as many riffs as possible and overshadowing keyboards completely
- Not enough keyboards, nowadays even when they do appear it's just a background thing, whereas they had many songs before where keyboards had an important role
- I just don't hear that much neoclassicality (dunno if this is a word?) in their music anymore
- Also on this album they are trying too hard to be modern and there are too many near nu-metal riffs and breakdowns

And the most important thing:
- Just go look at song credits: last 3 albums were almost exclusively written by Romeo and Allen. Romeo writes all the music (Pinella co-wrote one song on Paradise Lost and that's it) and they collaborate on the lyrics. Others don't participate at all. Now go back to, say, V or Twilight credits and you can see back then it was a collaborative effort. Also, Russell sounds amazing on Star One's 2010 album, which leads me to believe the guy shouldn't write his vocal lines. I dunno what to tell you guys if you think "Nevermore, strike a chord" is a good chorus.

 

[Mosh]

I wholeheartedly agree, and (EDIT) I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on Underworld.

I will probably pick it up on Saturday. I'd prefer to wait until then but if it shows up on spotify before I might get tempted.

I don't disagree with any of your points, NP, a lot of those things don't bother me much though. I think I've just accepted that the band who wrote TIO doesn't exist anymore and I'll try to enjoy this new sound for what it is. That's probably why I don't dislike Iconoclast. Not the best direction IMO but still some pretty good songs.

I would like more variety though. Iconoclast was very same-y. PL had more variety but I think they could take it further.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Twilight In Olympus is my favorite Symphony X album. Anyway, can we please not bring IE into this again? It always ends with everyone else antagonizing me That's why I try to avoid IE discussions lately. Was the same with Opeth, but kinda got better considering I like the last album

Gotcha, I misread what you were saying about TiO. And sure, let's drop IE.

My main problem with post-Odyssey SX, as I said before:
- Tough guy Russell vocals, and on this album, uninspired emotionless Russell
- Guitar/metal overkill aka Romeo trying to cram in as many riffs as possible and overshadowing keyboards completely
- Not enough keyboards, nowadays even when they do appear it's just a background thing, whereas they had many songs before where keyboards had an important role
- I just don't hear that much neoclassicality (dunno if this is a word?) in their music anymore
- Also on this album they are trying too hard to be modern and there are too many near nu-metal riffs and breakdowns

- I very much agree about the Russell tough-guy vocals, but I feel like they are mostly absent from Underworld. There are still some of them, but it's not enough to become annoying. If anything, he's reached a more natural, pure scream than a tough-guy grunt.
- As already stated, I agree about the guitar. Romeo's riffs have become a little too loose and overwhelming. But I don't feel like the keyboards are overshadowed at all on this album. There's more Pinnella here than we've heard since The Odyssey.
- The neoclassicality is certainly almost non-existent. But again, this is nothing new. Even The Odyssey was devoid of a lot of that sound. Romeo clearly grew out of it or made a conscious decision not to play that way anymore.
- The only thing I hear on this album that is trying to be modern is in the choruses, they are big and hooky. But honestly, I don't mind some poppier choruses if it means less shouting and more melody!

And the most important thing:
- Just go look at song credits: last 3 albums were almost exclusively written by Romeo and Allen. Romeo writes all the music (Pinella co-wrote one song on Paradise Lost and that's it) and they collaborate on the lyrics. Others don't participate at all. Now go back to, say, V or Twilight credits and you can see back then it was a collaborative effort. Also, Russell sounds amazing on Star One's 2011 album, which leads me to believe the guy shouldn't write his vocal lines. I dunno what to tell you guys if you think "Nevermore, strike a chord" is a good chorus.

Russell is generally not a great writer, but a great singer. I agree that he sings better on other people's melodies than when he writes his own. However, here are photos of the Underworld booklet:

http://imgur.com/a/d3oFl

Romeo wrote this entire album. Russell literally only contributed to the lyrics of one song. Lepond has six writing credits on Underworld, Pinnella has four.

 

[Night Prowler]

http://imgur.com/a/d3oFl

Romeo wrote this entire album. Russell literally only contributed to the lyrics of one song. Lepond has six writing credits on Underworld, Pinnella has four.

That is weird. Only explanation is that they've all gone to shit then Although just because he didn't write the lyrics doesn't mean he didn't come up with the vocal lines by himself though.

 

[Mosh]

So if Pinella contributed more to the writing are the keyboards a bit more present than Iconoclast? I remember hearing that he seemed unsatisfied with the the direction they were taking and wanted to go back to the V sound.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

So if Pinella contributed more to the writing are the keyboards a bit more present than Iconoclast? I remember hearing that he seemed unsatisfied with the the direction they were taking and wanted to go back to the V sound.

The keyboards are certainly more present than Iconoclast.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

After listening to the album once this morning, I admit that I was a bit confused due to the unusual sound when compared to the last two albums. But after seeing the booklet, it makes sense - both LePond and Pinnella were more involved in the writing process. Granted, the lyrics are still awful (although not as bad as Iconoclast) - I think "Bring down the hammer with serious anger" speaks for itself. But does anyone really care about the lyrics of a band that wrote an entire concept album about Egyptian mythology?

There are some stunningly powerful tracks on this album, including Charon, Kiss of Fire, Swan Song, Legend, and the title track (probably my favorite so far). Somehow, the clearly written-to-be-a-mini-epic To Hell and Back hasn't really clicked with me yet, but I'm sure it will. And as cheesy and 80s-sounding as In My Darkest Hour is (I despise these generic metal song titles), it is catchy and I like it.

Yes, this band could use more keyboards, which is something they've lacked since Paradise Lost. But this album has more than the previous two, and while it isn't returning to V or Divine Wings in terms of keyboard usage, it is a step in the right direction. The intro to the title track is incredible and unlike anything I've really heard the band do before, save for perhaps the intro to Reign in Madness. But this is more powerful.