Some theory help about a chord progression.
- Thread starter Mega
- Start date
It's a circle of fifths progression, for the most part.
A is the 5th of D, which is the 5th of G, which is the 5th of C, which is the 5th of F.
B is the 5th of E, which is the 5th of A.
If you keep moving in perfect 5ths from the top line, you go from F to Bb to Eb to Ab, but then you end the chorus a half step flat of where you started. So they had to do a diminished fifth from F to B, to end the chorus in the same key they started in.
Actually, they could have stuck the dim 5th anywhere in there, but it sounds best there. You need a bunch of 5ths in the start to establish the characteristic sound of a circle of fifths progression. (Yes, it does have a sound, and once you know it you can ID it in any song if it's there.) And you don't want the dim 5th too close to the end, so you can get that circle of fifths flavor there too.
Bdim7 usually goes to C, Eb, F# or A. From a theoretical perspective, I'd call Bdim7 and E7 together a "dominant function" leading to the Am at the end. But that's forcing a square peg into a round hole, because classical theory would actually scream "that Bdim7 has no fucking business there!". It's a horrible excuse for a dominant function, and there's no excuse for the change F7 - Bdim7.
Unless this is a jazz tune, in which case it might work. All those 7ths make me wonder if this is jazzy.
A is the 5th of D, which is the 5th of G, which is the 5th of C, which is the 5th of F.
B is the 5th of E, which is the 5th of A.
If you keep moving in perfect 5ths from the top line, you go from F to Bb to Eb to Ab, but then you end the chorus a half step flat of where you started. So they had to do a diminished fifth from F to B, to end the chorus in the same key they started in.
Actually, they could have stuck the dim 5th anywhere in there, but it sounds best there. You need a bunch of 5ths in the start to establish the characteristic sound of a circle of fifths progression. (Yes, it does have a sound, and once you know it you can ID it in any song if it's there.) And you don't want the dim 5th too close to the end, so you can get that circle of fifths flavor there too.
Bdim7 usually goes to C, Eb, F# or A. From a theoretical perspective, I'd call Bdim7 and E7 together a "dominant function" leading to the Am at the end. But that's forcing a square peg into a round hole, because classical theory would actually scream "that Bdim7 has no fucking business there!". It's a horrible excuse for a dominant function, and there's no excuse for the change F7 - Bdim7.
Unless this is a jazz tune, in which case it might work. All those 7ths make me wonder if this is jazzy.
Mega
Ancient Mariner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnSGLif3pkQ
Not so much.
Thanks for the help!
I'm not familiar with progressions that aren't a part of a specific key though. Why does it end on Am again?
Actually, I also don't understand why is there a Dm after the first A.
I understand the circle of fifths concept, but the "correct" chord in the A major scale would be D major, not minor, and yet it sounds great. Why is that?
Also, is there another song that comes to mind that uses this progression? I'd like to get the feel of it.
Here's the second part of the chorus just for fun:
A7 - Dm7
G7 - C
G AM - D
Dm7 Em7 - A
Not so much.
Thanks for the help!
I'm not familiar with progressions that aren't a part of a specific key though. Why does it end on Am again?
Actually, I also don't understand why is there a Dm after the first A.
I understand the circle of fifths concept, but the "correct" chord in the A major scale would be D major, not minor, and yet it sounds great. Why is that?
Also, is there another song that comes to mind that uses this progression? I'd like to get the feel of it.
Here's the second part of the chorus just for fun:
A7 - Dm7
G7 - C
G AM - D
Dm7 Em7 - A
Aha. Now I see... I assumed that you knew about V-I. It's at the heart of classical music theory. In any key, V goes to I (except when it doesn't).
Let's take a look at classical cadences:
Plagal cadence: IV to I (or iv to i): In C major, F to C ... in C minor, Fm to Cm. This is the "Amen" at the end of church hymns. Also found in the blues and much rock.
Authentic cadence: V (or V7) to I (or i). So the tonic chord can be major or minor, but the V is always major.
C major: G (or G7) to C
C minor: G (or G7) to Cm
This is the most important cadence. Most chord changes in classical progressions are based on V-I changes. With many consecutive V-Is, you get the circle of fifths.
Deceptive cadence: V (or V7) to vi (or VII):
C major: G (or G7) to Am
C minor: G (or G7) to Ab major
The most common variation on V-I. It only works because V goes to I 90% of the time, making this change really jump out. But overuse kills its value!
So, the bottom line: when your chord changes drop a fifth every time, its a long sequence of V-I.
Whatever chord you're playing is the V of the next chord.
A is V of D (D E F G A, just count the letters), so some kind of D chord follows some kind of A chord. And so on.
The first half ends on Am because that's the key of the progression. That's where it started. So you repeat the first four chords from the first half of the chorus. Then it's a IV-V-I in D as a subdominant function, then IV-V-I in the home key of Am... except the last chord is major, a large-scale Picardy third.
That should clear everything up.
Let's take a look at classical cadences:
Plagal cadence: IV to I (or iv to i): In C major, F to C ... in C minor, Fm to Cm. This is the "Amen" at the end of church hymns. Also found in the blues and much rock.
Authentic cadence: V (or V7) to I (or i). So the tonic chord can be major or minor, but the V is always major.
C major: G (or G7) to C
C minor: G (or G7) to Cm
This is the most important cadence. Most chord changes in classical progressions are based on V-I changes. With many consecutive V-Is, you get the circle of fifths.
Deceptive cadence: V (or V7) to vi (or VII):
C major: G (or G7) to Am
C minor: G (or G7) to Ab major
The most common variation on V-I. It only works because V goes to I 90% of the time, making this change really jump out. But overuse kills its value!
So, the bottom line: when your chord changes drop a fifth every time, its a long sequence of V-I.
Whatever chord you're playing is the V of the next chord.
A is V of D (D E F G A, just count the letters), so some kind of D chord follows some kind of A chord. And so on.
The first half ends on Am because that's the key of the progression. That's where it started. So you repeat the first four chords from the first half of the chorus. Then it's a IV-V-I in D as a subdominant function, then IV-V-I in the home key of Am... except the last chord is major, a large-scale Picardy third.
That should clear everything up.
Curses! Foiled again.
I was hoping to confuse you a bit with the bit about subdominant functions and Picardy thirds. <evil grin>
I was hoping to confuse you a bit with the bit about subdominant functions and Picardy thirds. <evil grin>
