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Boroking

I talk to planets…
People have been predicting the death of metal ever since punk first arrived. Metal will survive and evolve as all music must do.
 

gazda

Educated Fool
If metal survived grunge, Maiden in clubs with Blaze, Metallica with makeup and Sabbath with lineup change on weekly base, all that at the same time....metal will survive anything :)
 

johnglen

Educated Fool
What was the future of metal in '90? What was the in '00?

I dont get you, what do you want? New Maiden and Metallica bands?

New bands are coming with their own style. If I want Maiden no.2 I will just play old Maiden records I dont need another copy/paste band.
These bands are not even metal. Ghost are 100% NOT metal. Slipknot are not a new band anyway and neither are Nightwish, bands with over 20 years of discography are not the future (nevermind arguing about their dubious quality). That’s like saying in 2001-2002 that Maiden were the future of metal.

Eurovision metal is bubblegum music with tons of keyboards and no real substance or....you know heaviness.
 

johnglen

Educated Fool
Metal is a broad church. It doesn't have to conform to your narrow definition. The worst thing an older metal fan can do is try and gatekeep what should or should not be seen as metal. Good way to suffocate innovation and experimentation.
Nothing experimental about Sabaton and Nightwish, Voivod are experimental.
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
Unless something highly inventive and unforeseen comes along, there's nothing in the new generation that's has predispositions to became stadium sized bands down the line.

99% of them fail for the same pitfalls of songwriting, production and just approach to whole affair itself is rather narrow minded.
"Fun" is also the worst possible way to make a relevant band. If you don't have much to say and you don't have means to say it, you'll play clubs for the remainder of your life no matter how good technically you are. So have fun with chainsaw massacre gore and tolkien porn or whatever.

People want something that they can associate with. When you make an album that's a "SF concept" about some ship traveling somewhere and then a paradox happens, congrats you have just described a B level TV show filler episode in one hour worth of music.

In the end when you make metal you need to be rebellious. Meanwhile we made a society where about the only rebellious thing left is being an environmentalist which is not a novel thing at all. Sure, some current rather big acts like Gojira express through it but it's not what made them.

Maybe we just have to wait for some act from less developed, fucked up parts of the world, that has a native English singer?
I really don't believe you can make impactful metal akin to what Sabbath or Maiden or Metallica did in their formative years, from the confines of your AC'ed house and your amateur studio...
 

gazda

Educated Fool
Nobody is talking here that Sabaton or Nightwish will be like Maiden.

There will no be new Maiden or new Metallica, just like there si no new Zeppelin or Queen.

But that will not stop metal music, young bands can get influence from 50 yrs old records.
 

johnglen

Educated Fool
Not bothered by the future of metal anyway, it has been over 50 years since the first notes of Black Sabbath (the song) were heard, the genre had a great run. Whatever will be, will be....
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
These bands are not even metal. Ghost are 100% NOT metal. Slipknot are not a new band anyway and neither are Nightwish, bands with over 20 years of discography are not the future (nevermind arguing about their dubious quality). That’s like saying in 2001-2002 that Maiden were the future of metal.

Eurovision metal is bubblegum music with tons of keyboards and no real substance or....you know heaviness.
I'd say that Nightwish have more substance and are often way more heavy than Iron Maiden.
Certainly Tuomos has a much greater grasp of music theory than Steve Harris who openly admits he does't know much music theory. Maiden songs are almost always in Em and consist of mostly the same 4 chords.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
I'd say that Nightwish have more substance and are often way more heavy than Iron Maiden.
Certainly Tuomos has a much greater grasp of music theory than Steve Harris who openly admits he does't know much music theory. Maiden songs are almost always in Em and consist of mostly the same 4 chords.

That does not stop them being much more entertaining than Nightwish’s songs for a hell of a lot of people (me included).

I also find the Ramones much more entertaining than Nightwish but hey, each to their own.
 
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MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Not bothered by the future of metal anyway, it has been over 50 years since the first notes of Black Sabbath (the song) were heard, the genre had a great run. Whatever will be, will be....
The problem is that Maiden and ACDC have been dominating, leading the way for 40 years and Metallica for 35 years and they are semi retired.
Nothing fresh and with high quality and enduring is in the works. Metallica haven't put out anything good for 30 years and are still riding on the success of TBA, ACDC puts out the same album over and over. Maiden's singer sounds strained and old, and they only put out albums every 4-6 years.
All of these bands should have been overtaken by now.
But with albums no longer selling, and with radio and tv being much more commercially focused it is hard for quality metal to get established internationally.
Quality bands like Nightwish should have taken over by now. But perhaps many Metal fans are limited in their snobbish thinking about what is metal and what is not. Some metal fans it seems have a hard time with having female fronted bands or metal bands with keyboards and worry about what is real Metal or fake metal.

There is also lots of diversity in metal these days, which is great but it does spread the fan bases thin. for example there are a lot of grunt, throat growl, screamo bands, which I don't give the time of day to, and some of their fans don't seem to like metal bands with singers that can carry a tune.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
That does not stop them being much more entertaining than Nightwish’s songs for a hell lot of people (me included).

I also find the Ramones much more entertaining than Nightwish but hey, each to their own.
I never said that Iron Maiden aren't entertaining. Johnglen was saying Nightwish didn't have substance and weren't heavy. I was directly challenging that.

Don't take my promotions of Nightwish to be an afront to Iron Maiden.
I recognise that Iron Maiden are musically limited, but that doesn't stop them being my favourite band.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
I never said that Iron Maiden aren't entertaining. Johnglen was saying Nightwish didn't have substance and weren't heavy. I was directly challenging that.

Don't take my promotions of Nightwish to be an afront to Iron Maiden.
I recognise that Iron Maiden are musically limited, but that doesn't stop them being my favourite band.

They might not be as accomplished musicians as classically trained ones, but they are a fairly superior band to Nightwish just by looking at their respective discographies.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
They might not be as accomplished musicians as classically trained ones, but they are a fairly superior band to Nightwish just by looking at their respective discographies.
Depends on your definition of superior.

Personally, I'd say the singer of Nightwish is better than the singer of Maiden
The songwriting of Nightwish is more complex, more intricate, more epic than Maiden
The variety of songs and styles in Nightwish's discography is much bigger and broad than Maiden's.
Maiden have better guitarists than Nightwish and do better guitar solos.

Maiden were groundbreaking in their day, in the early 80's. They have kept to that formula over the decades.
In today's times Maiden are neither heavy, nor groundbreaking. Many bands such as Nightwish have taken metal forward in leaps and bounds.
Some people are trying to say Maiden are progressive. They aren't, they are a straight forward rock metal band.

All that said, I really enjoy Iron Maiden's music as I also really enjoy Nightwish music.

Here is what Steve Harris says about Nightwish
 
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Poto

Ancient Mariner
I don't care how accomplished Maiden or Nightwish or anyone is, their musical output is what matters at the end of the day. Maiden are far superior. Nightwish, and Tuomas in particular, seems like they think they are so much better and creative than they really are. The last album Nightwish made was absolute crap.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
I don't care how accomplished Maiden or Nightwish or anyone is, their musical output is what matters at the end of the day. Maiden are far superior. Nightwish, and Tuomas in particular, seems like they think they are so much better and creative than they really are.
This is rather petty don't ya think? I've not seen them being arrogant about their music abilities.

On the other hand Bruce says stuff that could easily be seen as arrogant
 

frus

Barbed Wire Hen
Maiden were groundbreaking in their day, in the early 80's.
Well that's a bit like saying Beethoven was good for 1810's
Not comparing Maiden to Beethoven, but things are called 'evergreen' for a reason.
Nightwish might be called that too some day, nothing against them, but saying Maiden is kinda obsolete is exaggarating a bit
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Well that's a bit like saying Beethoven was good for 1810's
Not comparing Maiden to Beethoven, but things are called 'evergreen' for a reason.
Nightwish might be called that too some day, nothing against them, but saying Maiden is kinda obsolete is exaggarating a bit
I never said Maiden was obsolete.

Why is it that so many people read into my posts things that I have never said or implied?
 
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