Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

srfc

Ancient Mariner
Never underestimate the collectors!

I'm one!

I'm buying 7 other formats. But I'm not buying that one, as it simply does not have anything in it that appeals to me, especially when the other boxset also has the only relevant content, the bluray, and I agree with you that even the "cheaper" box is over-priced for what it contains.

Reading the official forum, the posters there seem to be in no doubt that it will sell out, and it's getting a bit panicky. Maybe I'm seriously underestimating saying they'll struggle to sell 200, but I genuinely can't see there being 2,000 people with €400 to drop on the box, considering the multitude of other formats that are more relevent to music fans than samurai trinkets and origami and the likes? Surely buy the LP, CD book or regular boxset instead.
 

Iron Lurker

Ancient Mariner
This is so true. Steve has a ton of great ideas, but he needs to be challenged and have his worst instincts countered to consistently put out strong work. I believe this happened during the classic era with Bruce and Adrian, but I sense that to keep band tensions down post-reunion, they started giving each other too much creative space and no longer challenge each other’s ideas as much anymore. While this may keep things more pleasant, it also reduces the overall quality of their output.
With Bruce and H back in the fold it has increased the quality of output. To me the Reunion Era albums >>>NPFTD, FOTD, XF, VXI.
 

Ruflux

Ancient Mariner
This is so true. Steve has a ton of great ideas, but he needs to be challenged and have his worst instincts countered to consistently put out strong work. I believe this happened during the classic era with Bruce and Adrian, but I sense that to keep band tensions down post-reunion, they started giving each other too much creative space and no longer challenge each other’s ideas as much anymore. While this may keep things more pleasant, it also reduces the overall quality of their output.
This really doesn't seem like something that holds up to scrutiny. Steve had far more solo writing credits in the 80s than in the reunion era and he's mentioned in interviews that he can be pretty uncompromising with how he wants the songs to be played and whatnot. Bruce even mentioned arguing over things like vocal phrasings and those are and always have been awkward in Steve's songs, indicating no change whatsoever in his approach since the 80s. I honestly doubt that Steve was more open to input in the 80s than now - hell, when Bruce first joined they even had a row over having to share the center stage spot.
 

Jer

Love in anger
With Bruce and H back in the fold it has increased the quality of output. To me the Reunion Era albums >>>NPFTD, FOTD, XF, VXI.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I think the 90s albums are mostly worse than the reunion albums for that very reason — Steve being mostly unchecked with Adrian and eventually Bruce gone.
This really doesn't seem like something that holds up to scrutiny. Steve had far more solo writing credits in the 80s than in the reunion era and he's mentioned in interviews that he can be pretty uncompromising with how he wants the songs to be played and whatnot. Bruce even mentioned arguing over things like vocal phrasings and those are and always have been awkward in Steve's songs, indicating no change whatsoever in his approach since the 80s. I honestly doubt that Steve was more open to input in the 80s than now - hell, when Bruce first joined they even had a row over having to share the center stage spot.
Creative tensions are what led Adrian to quit in the lead-up to NPFTD. There are plenty of stories of Martin Birch pushing to get things just right, like having Bruce redo the scream in TNOTB umpteen times, well past the point where he wanted to keep doing it. You yourself bring up citations of creative arguments and jockeying between Bruce and Steve in those earlier years. Back when album sales were paying the bills, many of the band’s biggest singles during that golden period were heavily influenced if not completely written by Bruce and/or Adrian. There were clearly a lot of cooks in the kitchen, all pushing to make the best product they could.

Once Bruce and Adrian were both out of the band, we saw many of Steve’s excesses come to the fore, unchecked. Massive lyrical and musical repetition, terrible vocal phrasing, bloated song lengths, circular intro/outro structure. And most of those excesses have persisted into the reunion era to some extent. There have been comments in interviews about giving people more creative space, etc. Yes, I’m certainly inferring some things, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong, I think.
 

Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
I have a noob question on what solo writing credits mean for a Bassist like Steve? I mean the riffs would still need to come from the 3 amigos right? For example the iconic riffs of Hallowed be thy name or Fear of the Dark etc. Those come from the guitarists I would assume? and Steve basically dictates the song structure and lyrics? If this is accurate then how much of the credit should we attribute to Steve since those riffs are what creates the magic in the 1st place?
 
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Kalata

Out of the Silent Planet
I wonder if Michael Kenney will play the keyboards (along with Steve) for the new album. He played keyboards for Maiden (in the studio) from 1990 to 1998 - Steve plays the keyboards for every album since VXI, but both were credited for TBOS album. Steve will play them for Senjutsu too (for sure).

Btw, Steve and Adrian played the keyboards in SSOASS album.
 

Maturin

Sköldpadda
I have a noob question on what solo writing credits mean for a Bassist like Steve? I mean the riffs would still need to come from the 3 amigos right? For example the iconic riffs of Hallowed be thy name or Fear of the Dark etc. Those come from the guitarists I would assume? and Steve basically dictates the song structure and lyrics? If this is accurate then how much of the credit should we attribute to Steve since those riffs are what creates the magic in the 1st place?

I would assume it's all Steve. No guitarplayer in their right mind would come up with riffs like these.
 

Gk1

Here I sit in a serenade of glory!
I have a noob question on what solo writing credits mean for a Bassist like Steve? I mean the riffs would still need to come from the 3 amigos right? For example the iconic riffs of Hallowed be thy name or Fear of the Dark etc. Those come from the guitarists I would assume? and Steve basically dictates the song structure and lyrics? If this is accurate then how much of the credit should we attribute to Steve since those riffs are what creates the magic in the 1st place?
No, it is just the solos that are contributed by the guitarists in such cases
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
I have a noob question on what solo writing credits mean for a Bassist like Steve? I mean the riffs would still need to come from the 3 amigos right? For example the iconic riffs of Hallowed be thy name or Fear of the Dark etc. Those come from the guitarists I would assume? and Steve basically dictates the song structure and lyrics? If this is accurate then how much of the credit should we attribute to Steve since those riffs are what creates the magic in the 1st place?

It's all Harris. He plays powerchords on the bass and can convey any kind of riff to them.
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
No, it is just the solos that are contributed by the guitarists in such cases

Yes but he does prepare the ground for it, in most of his shorter 80s tracks like Trooper or Aces High the only key change is inside the guitar solo section.
 
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Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
It's all Harris. He plays powerchords on the bass and can convey any kind of riff to them.
I don't mean the root rhythm chords which tend to hover around the same areas Em-C-G-D. I mean the overlaying guitar parts that makes each song. Is that also Steve in his solo credit songs?
 

dmort93

Educated Fool
I have a noob question on what solo writing credits mean for a Bassist like Steve? I mean the riffs would still need to come from the 3 amigos right? For example the iconic riffs of Hallowed be thy name or Fear of the Dark etc. Those come from the guitarists I would assume? and Steve basically dictates the song structure and lyrics? If this is accurate then how much of the credit should we attribute to Steve since those riffs are what creates the magic in the 1st place?

I think Steve does all the composition in such cases. He plays powerchords, root notes and melodies that the guitarists add extra bits to (e.g. little licks here and there, palm mutes, harmonising off one another. So Steve does write the songs completely, but the guitarists enhance it so to speak.
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
Back when album sales were paying the bills, many of the band’s biggest singles during that golden period were heavily influenced if not completely written by Bruce and/or Adrian.

RTTH, Flight Of Icarus, 2 MTM, Evil That Men Do?
On the other side, Number of the Beast, The Trooper, The Clairvoyant, Wrathchild...

I'd say it's 50/50 tops, for the commercial stuff, Harris vs everyone else.
But he did lose a touch for shorter song sometime after the 80s.

What you say about bloat and circular intro/outro, even I who am a fan of X Factor and such reunion stuff as AMOLAD, get tired by the time song ends. Even the most metal stuff like Lord of Light suffers from needless copy paste (last chorus). Stuff like BTATS, kinda drowns back after they just copy paste the entire beginning of the song as verse/double chorus/intro.

Most of Harris stuff from the 80s ends on a banger which is not the case for a lot of reunion stuff.
 

dmort93

Educated Fool
I think Steve does all the composition in such cases. He plays powerchords, root notes and melodies that the guitarists add extra bits to (e.g. little licks here and there, palm mutes, harmonising off one another. So Steve does write the songs completely, but the guitarists enhance it so to speak.
'enhance' was the wrong word there, the guitarists add and expand to what Steve does. He's a fantastic bass player.
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
I don't mean the root rhythm chords which tend to hover around the same areas Em-C-G-D. I mean the overlaying guitar parts that makes each song. Is that also Steve in his solo credit songs?

If you're talking about lead parts like Trooper main melody, that's Steve. From what he know he whisles this stuff out while playing the roots on the bass. If you're talking small texturing like Smith does on Trooper chorus, or a lot of it on CSiT chorus, I really can't know. Maybe it's his original idea maybe guitarist came up with it in preproduction jam.

For me weirder is Powerslave solo Dickinson credit, because the only way he could've conveyed that instrumental section is by reffering to another songs (like he asked Nicko to do 'the thing' from Pat Travers track) and ask Dave and H to pull up something akin to that. And we know there are different takes around (the Iron Curtain video), so solos were developed as opposed to improvised over a chord sequence Bruce set there. For me it is utterly stupid to not credit guitarists for those solos, but it's likely that the harmony section in between H's and Dave's second solo was simply sang out by Bruce. That line has his phrasing written all over.
 

Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
I think Steve does all the composition in such cases. He plays powerchords, root notes and melodies that the guitarists add extra bits to (e.g. little licks here and there, palm mutes, harmonising off one another. So Steve does write the songs completely, but the guitarists enhance it so to speak.
Thanks for clarifying this. It doesn't explain why riffs aren't great in Virtual XI. I hear just standard chord progression and a lot of repetition in those songs. The same person that came up with Trooper, Hallowed, SSOASS created something like The educated fool, is hard to believe
 
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shadowpants

DEEPER GREY CAME TO MOURN
I am old enough to have done mix tapes (TDK90 cassettes). I made Maiden mix tapes too back in the early 90s. The days of pressing record and play button at the same time and the threat of erasing the master cassette tape by accident (if you got left or right side wrong on your player) was real :p

Not sure how many here can identify with this or listening to Maiden on a sony walkman?
Totally relate to this. I got a walkman (don't even think it was sony...some cheapy plastic red thing with no rewind) for my 10th birthday, in the mid 80's and parents told me I could go to the local record store and pick out a tape. My 10 yr old eyes fixed on Killers. Didn't know who they were or basically anything about music really. But wore that tape out to death. Had to fix it numerous times and get the pencil to it as well :bigsmile: That was the start of my Maiden journey. Ah the old press record and play at the same time....while waiting for radio dj to shut the hell up.
 

Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
Totally relate to this. I got a walkman (don't even think it was sony...some cheapy plastic red thing with no rewind) for my 10th birthday, in the mid 80's and parents told me I could go to the local record store and pick out a tape. My 10 yr old eyes fixed on Killers. Didn't know who they were or basically anything about music really. But wore that tape out to death. Had to fix it numerous times and get the pencil to it as well :bigsmile: That was the start of my Maiden journey. Ah the old press record and play at the same time....while waiting for radio dj to shut the hell up.
Haha good memories! What I dreaded most was the older tapes getting entangled within the player and it used to be such a tough job to get it out without tearing the tape/damaging the recording.

My introduction to Maiden was in 1994. A highschool friend and metalhead gave me the Fear of the dark tape. I was blown away by the cover itself and then was on a quest to find rest of the albums. My favorite song back then was actually the Fugitive and I still love that song :p
 
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