Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

[Arrakis]

The point is that they actually understood that DM was not good sonic wise and they rectified it on the next album.

It was discussed previously, but please find it here again:

Bruce Dickinson - 'The Black Album' Pushed Metal Into Mainstream

He praised the record around its 30th anniversary.

loudwire.com

Metallica and Maiden are on two different paths, since decades now, in terms of satisfying their listeners. Metallica has to appeal to a wide audience, they decided to invest into a polished sound and based on how that band functions, they indeed need a producer in full mode.

Maiden did not choose that path. That's it. It's more than a sound issue, it's how they function.

 

[redandtheblack92]

Honestly I always got the impression it was less about the lyric itself and more about the dance.

And the monkey mask lol

 

[redandtheblack92]

I have to be honest; before entering this forum I had never heard monkey complaints about this song lol

Neither had I. And now that I have I’m just adding my 2 cents. At first I too found the line odd but then I thought about the context it’s been used in and was like umm okay. Whatever said and done Adrian’s solo on that is amazing.

 

[Perun]

Honestly I always got the impression it was less about the lyric itself and more about the dance.

Oh no, people were whining about the monkey long before the tour even started. I always thought Bruce's stage performance about that was a direct response to that.

 

[Ariana]

Seriously, why do people get offended by the banana but not by the ugly giant doll walking on stage?

 

[Jadukor]

I think there is a way to get a criticism across without being annoying. First warning sign is when forum regulars start quoting you in exasperation. At the end of the day this is a fan space and it means people prefer positivity and an upbeat atmosphere together with the energy and excitement of a new album release. Nobody really has the appetite for ocd nitpicking about production and sound mix that you may have for too long. Once or twice is ok but just read the room and move on. Sometimes that discussion is better suited with your friend over a beer.

 

[redandtheblack92]

I think there is a way to get a criticism across without being annoying. First warning sign is when forum regulars start quoting you in exasperation. At the end of the day this is a fan space and it means people prefer positivity and an upbeat atmosphere together with the energy and excitement of a new album release. Nobody really has the appetite for ocd nitpicking about production and sound mix that you may have for too long. Once or twice is ok but just read the room and move on. Sometimes that discussion is better suited with your friend over a beer.

I second you on this. People demand an album and the first thing they find are the flaws. It’s kind of funny how the few flaws easily outweigh the good stuff. Fine Shirley might not be as great as Birch but the production isn’t as bad as making the album unbearable to listen. And like put your point out there but don’t sound like a douche bag.

 

[blindg3]

That's because of the monkey line. Totally cringe, ruins the song, can't take Maiden making a joke of themselves, we should edit it out.

I have no problem with the monkey. It's the repetitious chorus that turns me off.

 

[mckindog]

One thing I find notable about these two songs is how well-composed each is, relatively compact and well-knitted, with great flow between the parts. Very purposeful and (from a songwriting perspective) polished.

From a production perspective, I find the drum sound absolutely fantastic and Iove both what the rhythm section is doing and where it is featured in the mix.

 

[Azas]

I'm really curious, on how many new album songs Bruce's vocals will be doubled/layered/harmonised. Imo, It's definitely one of the best decisions they've made for Senjutsu. It elevates Stratego big time.

 

[Vaenyr]

When I hear about the people who bitch about the monkey dance and line I always think of a video from the SBIT tour when Adrian sneezed right as CIPWM was about to begin. Everyone's laughing, Bruce is cracking up and then says "It's not funny! It's serious, it's heavy metal! Grrrr"

Around 4:55 on this one (I'm on mobile, so I can't link to the moment right now)

 

[cedenede]

The point is that they actually understood that DM was not good sonic wise and they rectified it on the next album.

Maiden did it too actualy. DoD was compressed and they went to the other direction. When I listen Death or Glory and Spite Out of the Bone respectively, I can't say I prefer Metallica's way of production. Guitars in Metallica albums sound weird to me. May be it is just me but their distortion is too refined.

 

[MegBegb]

That is completely fine, it's also on the end of the song (and the end of the record for that matter).

I'm not saying Maiden should record like some Tech Death Metal band, not at all. I just want a little bit more care with the mistakes on studio albums, since we all know that they are more than capable to play everything they write. Just a couple more takes so that we can get an album that sounds both live (since that is what Steve wants) but also polished, since that's what a studio album is about.

Now that I think of it: there's a certain irony in having studio albums recorded live, warts and all, with some mistakes, but at the same time having live albums like RIR or LAD with overdubs, copy/pasted or rerecorded vocals etc.

RIR is absolutely live, with some copied vocals in choruses (thanks to brasillian tv broadcast, so we can compare) - that's really makes me wonder what's the f*ck Steve thinking about, why he choose to add Dickinson vocals above roaring crowd. RIR is absolute masterpiece, pure energy, best Maiden live album, period. On LAD Bruce sounds a bit tired imo.

 

[redandtheblack92]

I'm really curious, on how many new album songs Bruce's vocals will be doubled/layered/harmonised. Imo, It's definitely one of the best decisions they've made for Senjutsu. It elevates Stratego big time.

And to an extend obscures the keyboards that aren’t that prominent in the first place.

 

[redandtheblack92]

RIR is absolutely live, with some copied vocals in choruses (thanks to brasillian tv broadcast, so we can compare) - that's really makes me wonder what's the f*ck Steve thinking about, why he choose to add Dickinson vocals above roaring crowd. RIR is absolute masterpiece, pure energy, best Maiden live album, period. On LAD Bruce sounds a bit tired imo.

He certainly sounds powerful and ready to slay. Especially on clansman.

 

[Vaenyr]

RIR is absolutely live, with some copied vocals in choruses (thanks to brasillian tv broadcast, so we can compare) - that's really makes me wonder what's the f*ck Steve thinking about, why he choose to add Dickinson vocals above roaring crowd. RIR is absolute masterpiece, pure energy, best Maiden live album, period. On LAD Bruce sounds a bit tired imo.

The copy/pasted part was about RIR, the rerecorded about LAD. Still, RIR is my favorite live album by Maiden, the atmosphere is magical.

 

[Jer]

At the end of the day this is a fan space and it means people prefer positivity and an upbeat atmosphere together with the energy and excitement of a new album release. Nobody really has the appetite for ocd nitpicking about production and sound mix that you may have for too long.

This is your opinion, but you do not own the definition of fandom and your generalization about what people want from a discussion forum is not at all universal.

I’m interested in hearing other fans’ points of view, sharing my own, and discussing them. As long as people aren’t being irrational, I’m happy to hear any opinion, positive or negative. I don’t have any problem sharing my honest opinion, positive or negative. If people were required to affirm your point of view by making almost exclusively positive comments, this forum would be boring and pointless.

How does someone else’s dislike of a song or elements of its production negatively affect your ability to enjoy it? Is your opinion so fragile that it can’t stand up to a challenge? I just don’t understand why this riles some people up so much.

Also, the hypocrisy of the people calling out those making negative comments as being “unwilling to accept others’ opinions” is jaw-dropping. Some of you need to take a hard look in the metaphorical mirror.

If you find negative comments triggering, you can always start a “positive comments only” Senjutsu thread and do your commenting there. I’m sure the moderators would help to eliminate any negativity in a thread like that.

Personally, I think “Stratego” is good but not great, and I like “The Writing On The Wall” slightly better, and TWOTW is probably still growing on me a bit. I have some issues with the production choices, but the songs are sounding pretty good overall, so I’m hoping for a strong album.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I never heard any of these things. I honestly can't relate to this sort of listening to music.

It's not a "sort of listening to music". The bad pressed note is there, and it has been copy pasted around. We don't go listening to fidelity of every note it just sticks out and you can't unhear it. It's not the single bad press that's problematic, it's copy paste. If you want to listen to mistakes, check out Wicker Man guitar only on YT, end of the song, there's several mistakes but they're organically left in the live part. No copy pasting

 

[samsalerno]

The copy/pasted part was about RIR, the rerecorded about LAD. Still, RIR is my favorite live album by Maiden, the atmosphere is magical.

What do you mean by copy pasted vocals?

Also, is LAD really re-recorded, I've never read that anywhere but here. You see that pop up about unleashed in the east all the time, but not LAD

 

[riff]

What's the point in being on a fan forum if you can't critique your favourite band's new music? Especially when there are obvious flaws in production that wouldn't fly with other bands.