Saddam Executed
- Thread starter Natalie
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SneakySneaky
Trooper
You're right Forostar, but it just sparked up. I believe there has been a heated debate over death penalties, anyway.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
SneakySneaky said:
As long as it's clear that they have some kind of limited responsibilty for their actions, I believe they should receive as much help as possible; there are many serious criminals who would be helped by the justice system, if it weren't so lenient (in this country at least). When some kids in Bristol (?) call out the police just so that they can murder a policewoman, the detterence of imprisonment is seriously not working. However, I believe that if the justice system was more 'just', then the topic of death penalties would be redundant.
Surely you mean the former don't deserve death, if you're referring to people with serious problems? I believe that murder for political profit is far worse than someone who is deranged; in being cold and calculated enough to figure out how you can profit from someone else's death, you remove yourself from humanity far more than any rapist or obsessed killer, in my opinion; these people can be helped, with luck...those who treat human lives as numbers on a page will show no remorse, as Saddam didn't. I still don't think either of the general cases you outlined would deserve death, though.
What the world needs is a more competant justice system, where criminals are punished so that others will not commit their crimes, and so the criminal can be reformed. There's too much emphasis on the 'rights of the criminal' in justice, as the police (in this country) don't want to face legal action from the criminals! I remember reading a story regarding a man who called the police to his house after some youths stole his scooter. When he asked the officer why they weren't chasing after the youths, the policeman responded, 'They aren't wearing any helmets. If we chase them, and they fall off and injure themselves, we could face court action.' That, to me, sums up the idiocity of justice today.
Raven has a point...we DO need a better justice system. And in reply to your earlier post Raven ("Now, which of them received the more just and more severe penalty, do you think? The collaborators who had their lives taken from them, or Bathory, who was left to 'rot in a cell'?"), I would say that Bathory got the more just and severe penalty because she was forced to live with her conscience. From what everyone has been saying about Saddam on this thread, he seems to be a cold, merciless, political killer with no humanity whatsoever. I think that his quest for power has made him become so, but the robbing of his power, and placement of him in a cold cell with scraps to eat would make him realize that he has committed atrocious crimes. In time, I think his conscience will catch up with him (yes, I do think that he has a conscience).
A
Anonymous
Guest
Just a thought: Is lifelong solitary confinement, which is just a nice way to describe rotting in a cell (and I'd rather not start ranting about how much I hate euphemisms), really a harsher punishment than what Saddam got?
Here is a man who made himself guilty of killing people with his own hands, and making other people kill. Living with such a guilt is something that has been known to cause people to commit suicide, and even though Saddam outwardly always played the tough man -what other choice did he have?- I find it hard to believe that he was a happy man, proud of his deeds. It is easy to make other people kill without remorse, but Saddam is known to have killed people with his own hands. Given that Saddams last words were the Shahada, I do think he was a faithful Muslim, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that his last thoughts went to God/Allah for forgiveness for his sins.
Here is a man who witnessed the worst thing someone could witness: To see his own offspring dead.
Here is a man who walked to the gallows alone, the only people around him eager to see his death, filled with hatred towards him. He met his end knowing that he lost everything he ever had in his life, that he was alone and that there was no-one by his side, no-one who would save him in this life or the possible next one.
To be honest, this is one of the worst possible ways to die I can imagine.
Here is a man who made himself guilty of killing people with his own hands, and making other people kill. Living with such a guilt is something that has been known to cause people to commit suicide, and even though Saddam outwardly always played the tough man -what other choice did he have?- I find it hard to believe that he was a happy man, proud of his deeds. It is easy to make other people kill without remorse, but Saddam is known to have killed people with his own hands. Given that Saddams last words were the Shahada, I do think he was a faithful Muslim, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that his last thoughts went to God/Allah for forgiveness for his sins.
Here is a man who witnessed the worst thing someone could witness: To see his own offspring dead.
Here is a man who walked to the gallows alone, the only people around him eager to see his death, filled with hatred towards him. He met his end knowing that he lost everything he ever had in his life, that he was alone and that there was no-one by his side, no-one who would save him in this life or the possible next one.
To be honest, this is one of the worst possible ways to die I can imagine.
Perun said:
According to the New York Times, whose reporter witnessed the execution, Saddam's last words were a curse against the Americans and the Persians. He did say the Shahada near the end, but it wasn't the last.
SneakySneaky
Trooper
You're right, but your point is that Bush should meet Saddam's fate too? Or that Saddam shouldn't be executed because Bush won't be? Clarify this if you'll please...____no5 said:
Also, I'm a member on a greek forum (nothing to do with Maiden) and we're having the same discussion there. The problem is that Greeks tend to be extremely un-American, and not just in politics. So, many there seem to think that what the US government has done (the war namely) is relative to it's residents. Many also think that this execution shows that "Americans are uncivilized animals who still live in the Middle Ages". Opinions anyone? I'm probably gonna get banned or delete my account there, since it seems that there's no use telling them they're wrong. I really don't want to delete my account, as this would show "weakness". This may seem off topic, but it is something I think should be discussed...
____no5 said:
Actually, I haven't paid a penny in taxes since 2002, as I've been unemployed for most of the past four years. In fact, I'm extremely proud that I haven't financially supported the US invasion of Iraq at all.
And I won't pay taxes this year (for 2006) either, since I made less than $2000 for the year. Three cheers for creative accounting!
____no5
Free Man
SinisterMinisterX said:
ok, I spoke to you personnaly, but you understand the spirit of my saying I think.....
SinisterMinisterX said:
well, I am glad for your way of thinking -have a praise....
I am also glad to I see the young americans wake up (see recent elections)
...in France a lot of people that they hed never voted in the past did the administration approches for to vote in coming presidential elections
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
I came late to this thread.
I have said elsewhere here and I'll say it again that I'm against capital punishment. I think principals need to be practiced consistently, so I would not execute the dictator, but rather keep him imprisoned for his whole natural life. Maybe he'd write another Mein Kampf, or lament how the Great Satan and the evil Persians have taken him from his benevolent intentions, blah, blah, blah... Still, I think USA would have shown a more moral side. Why stoop to the level of a murderer?
I have said elsewhere here and I'll say it again that I'm against capital punishment. I think principals need to be practiced consistently, so I would not execute the dictator, but rather keep him imprisoned for his whole natural life. Maybe he'd write another Mein Kampf, or lament how the Great Satan and the evil Persians have taken him from his benevolent intentions, blah, blah, blah... Still, I think USA would have shown a more moral side. Why stoop to the level of a murderer?
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Can you add some light on your statement No.5?
Which death would be honourable? The ones that hung Hussein, were certainly not his supporters.
Iran, a muslim country following Sharia law, has been accused of hanging people for quite a while now.
Here is a near 50 min. documentary on YouTube on Iranian hanging of a young woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHqnSe3EqpA
Which death would be honourable? The ones that hung Hussein, were certainly not his supporters.
Iran, a muslim country following Sharia law, has been accused of hanging people for quite a while now.
Here is a near 50 min. documentary on YouTube on Iranian hanging of a young woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHqnSe3EqpA
____no5
Free Man
Genghis Khan said:
pils, needle injection, sword, firearm -I guess.....here are some more honorable deaths
after a discusion I had with some Arab friends, unlike you, I didn't ask what it could be honorable, I stayed to the fact of the dishonor of the hanging.....
so for the moment I can only assure you that these hanged Iranians did also had a dishonorable death
good question though I'll try to find your answer
Metal_made
Trooper
____no5 said:
I completely agree with you my friend, hanging is horrible, they could've made it less... humm what's the word... evil.
Now, even though I support capital punishment, like you said no.5, there are honourable deaths.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
That's ridiculous, what does it matter if the form of execution is "humane" or not? YOU ARE STILL KILLING SOMEBODY. Does it really matter how? Humane execution is an oxymoron period. You are extinguishing someone's life, you think they're thinking "oh thank god I'm getting an inection instead of being shot."? I think they are just as scared or indifferent since the result is the same, their death.
SneakySneaky
Trooper
Actually Onhell, it does make a difference. When you for example torture someone to death just for fun, rather than killing him quick and making it as painless as possible, that shows cruelty.
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
Sneaky, I see your point - but Onhell has made the fact that you are still taking someones life regardless of the method used. To kill someone "inhumanely" and enjoy it (as seemingly in this case) is a more sadistic method. To kill someone "humanely" may seem a better method, but still it ends another's life.