Random Song: Dream Theater-Octavarium

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is Octavarium?

  • 7

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • 9

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • 3

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • 5

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 8

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • 10

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    12
I think SMX's basic point is correct. And I think in an odd way it bugs me that I don't get this track the way you guys do.
I'm supposed to be the elitist one who smugly says "La Villa Strangiato is too short" and "I can't believe When The Wild Wind Blows is 11 minutes long."
It's just that this track (and most DT I've listened to) just doesn't stay with me — right after I turn it off, I forget it.
When I saw DT open for Maiden it was the same way — I was blown away by their musical chops, but the songs were completely forgettable.
So instead of fighting my inner ADD child, I going to go away and embrace it.
AC/DC, here I come.  :lol:
 
mckindog said:
It's just that this track (and most DT I've listened to) just doesn't stay with me — right after I turn it off, I forget it.
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That's why you can't have a solid opinion of a song like that after only listening to it once. I didn't remember any of it either after I turned it off. It took me at least 3 listens to get just  a little bit of it in my brain. I didn't remember any of the DT show either except for the intro of As I Am, and the sitar part of Home (which I just remember a sitar sound being there) only because I thought the former was cool and the latter unique and unexpected.
 
I agree, over the past 2 years of so of listening to music I have definitely built up quite a bit of musical patience. For example, if I start listening to a new album, and I get really bored, I usually try and finish it whereas in the past I might have stopped halfway through. This allowed me to get into some bands I normally wouldn't be able to, like Opeth for example.
 
I think if I would've discovered Dream Theater say, 3 years ago, I would've hated them. I'm glad I heard them when I did.
 
I've been listening to Dream Theater for about 2 years and the first songs I loved were Forsaken and Pull Me Under :)
 
The first song I loved was 6:00. I also liked As I Am but didn't know what it was until later.
 
When it comes to LaBrie, I have often uttered my Train of Horror Thoughts, so this time I'll focus more on the music.

At first I was discomforted by the amount of unoriginality but as the song progresses, more interesting parts appear. The last third of the song is certainly the most appealing to me. And I also liked the Rudess solo part, earlier on.
 
Score: High 7.

Mosh said:
I wouldn't say ripped. More inspired. I think that's also part of the reason why I love this song so much. PF serves as a huge inspiration, and they were the first prog band I really got into.
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One can see (almost) copied or rip-off parts as inspired and tribute parts and certainly some were meant just like that. But one may wonder where the line should be drawn to believe all this (every time when this is said).

And how cool are tribute parts anyway? How good are they?
It's easier to make an intro like this song has, instead of coming up with something of your own.

I do not find it very believable when they say "yeah we were inspired, it's a tribute", every time when they come up with such parts, especially not when it's done often. And if they don't say it, then their fans will say they were inspired.

Some people (like me for instance) search for bands with a sound of their own (at least more than DT's "own" sound). It's cool to be inspired but I find it cooler to hear the bands they were inspired by and I have the idea that it is not easy for the DT-men to come up with something of their own.

@Mosh or anyone else, would you suggest me another DT song where you think they show more originality?
 
I find "Learning to Live" and "Under a Glass Moon" fairly original. Also quite a bit of Awake, check out "Scarred", "6:00" and "The Mirror".
 
Forostar said:
Score: High 7.

One can see (almost) copied or rip-off parts as inspired and tribute parts and certainly some were meant just like that. But one may wonder where the line should be drawn to believe all this (every time when this is said).

And how cool are tribute parts anyway? How good are they?
It's easier to make an intro like this song has, instead of coming up with something of your own.

I do not find it very believable when they say "yeah we were inspired, it's a tribute", every time when they come up with such parts, especially not when it's done often. And if they don't say it, then their fans will say they were inspired.

Some people (like me for instance) search for bands with a sound of their own (at least more than DT's "own" sound). It's cool to be inspired but I find it cooler to hear the bands they were inspired by and I have the idea that it is not easy for the DT-men to come up with something of their own.

@Mosh or anyone else, would you suggest me another DT song where you think they show more originality?
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Well again, I think most of the song is very original. The entire concept around it is very original. There is a lot of homages in to other prog groups, mostly in Full Circle. And the only real tribute or ripoff, whatever you want to call it, is the beginning which is homage to Pink Floyd. How good are they? It depends. I like the way that the opening slide guitar sets the mood. It doesn't bother me at all, I never want to skip it, and the way it slides up to the F chord that really starts off the song is awesome. I think at this point, Dream Theater have established their sound so that they can do homages like that, and still retain their sound. I will admit though, that period of DT (TOT-Systematic Chaos) was a bit high on ripping off other bands. Like Muse, Metallica, I think Coldplay was even mentioned once. Those I don't care for, I'd rather see them write something original. But for a band like Pink Floyd who DT was probably listening to when they were growing up, I think paying homage to them at some point is inevitable. Like how Maiden payed homage to Lizzy in Fallen Angel.


Original DT songs? Well Metropolis comes to my mind. Count of Tuscany is very original I'd say, but I've read that part of it was taken from Frank Zappa. I don't listen to much Zappa so maybe SMX could fill me in on that one? I really like Take The Time, that's original.
 
Well, they said in Octavarium-era interviews that Portnoy brought some Muse, U2 and Coldplay albums and wanted to have similar stuff on Octavarium.

Take a listen to In the Presence of Enemies (part 1 & 2) from Systematic Chaos, I find it to be one of the band's best epics (if not THE best). Also, the new album (ADTOE) is supposed to be "pure-DT-sounding", judging by the interviews with JLB, JP and JR.
 
Mosh said:
Count of Tuscany is very original I'd say, but I've read that part of it was taken from Frank Zappa. I don't listen to much Zappa so maybe SMX could fill me in on that one?
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There's nothing Zappa-like in TCOT. Nothing at all that I can hear. If you read about a specific Zappa reference somewhere, I'd love to know.

DT has shown Zappa influence, the most obvious being Beyond This Life @ 9:06 - 9:22 ... a Zappa tribute section. Although the background bass/drum groove isn't Zappa-style, the melody is intentionally so, and they nailed it.

And for those who say "tribute sections" are unoriginal ... perhaps, but I've never thought of it that way. DT has always worn their influences on their sleeve. More than most bands, they acknowledge that they exist in a continuum of progressive music that started with Floyd and the Beatles and continues through DT to the newer prog bands. That's why DT always made a point of taking unknown proggers out as opening bands; they're not only acknowledging the past musically, but trying to help the genre in the future.

However, most of this perspective on DT's place in prog rock came from Portnoy, and it remains to be seen what will change. Progressive Nation is almost certainly dead.
 
Zappa? Heh, that's not the easiest task to find out. During his lifetime Zappa released a total of 62 albums. Between 1994 and 2010 The Zappa Family Trust has released 27 posthumous albums to his name, making a grand total of 89 albums.
  :blink:

Guys, I'm in the process of listening to all these songs mentioned (in posting order). Now @ Count of Tuscany.
Great beginning!
 
Forostar said:
Zappa? Heh, that's not the easiest task to find out. During his lifetime Zappa released a total of 62 albums. Between 1994 and 2010 The Zappa Family Trust has released 27 posthumous albums to his name, making a grand total of 89 albums.
  :blink:
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Wow! That is a ton of albums! I'd like to start listening to Zappa, but I wouldn't know where to start.

Guys, I'm in the process of listening to all these songs mentioned (in posting order). Now @ Count of Tuscany.
Great beginning!
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Indeed, the first 4 minutes of that song is my favorite thing to play on guitar right now.
 
Mosh said:
Wow! That is a ton of albums! I'd like to start listening to Zappa, but I wouldn't know where to start.
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Same here. I don't like his "childish" song titles though. But the music should be interesting.
 
Forostar said:
Same here. I don't like his "childish" song titles though. But the music should be interesting.
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I imagine he is like Ted Nugent in the fact that lyrics and song titles aren't of any importance.
 
I'm listening to Count of Tuscany as we speak.
Now this is what I had been expecting from the hype.
Good song.
 
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