Queensryche & Geoff Tate

I am a huge fan of the first 5 albums, Promised Land and OM are my faves. They went downhill after Chris left, with Tate taking over and completely ruining the band in every aspect. Creatively, financially. By the end of his stint with he band, they had lost over 80% of the audience. Completely full of himself, an egomaniac, totally abusing the power of being irreplacable. Until they finally dared to test it. Glad they did.
Ever since Tate is gone, QR is fun again. Not as great as with Chris, but far above that artsy fartsy bullshit Goeff did. Tates solo records are jokes, really. He was way too busy to gather the biggest names as session musicians, but nobody can save you, when your songs just don't work. To this day he claims "I am Queensryche". How pathetic is that?
Thank god the first 5 albums are so good, that even this douchebag can't taint them for me. Promised Land is still one of the deepest, profojnded records I ever heard, and criminally underrated.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
I am a huge fan of the first 5 albums, Promised Land and OM are my faves. They went downhill after Chris left, with Tate taking over and completely ruining the band in every aspect. Creatively, financially. By the end of his stint with he band, they had lost over 80% of the audience. Completely full of himself, an egomaniac, totally abusing the power of being irreplacable. Until they finally dared to test it. Glad they did.
Ever since Tate is gone, QR is fun again. Not as great as with Chris, but far above that artsy fartsy bullshit Goeff did. Tates solo records are jokes, really. He was way too busy to gather the biggest names as session musicians, but nobody can save you, when your songs just don't work. To this day he claims "I am Queensryche". How pathetic is that?
Thank god the first 5 albums are so good, that even this douchebag can't taint them for me. Promised Land is still one of the deepest, profojnded records I ever heard, and criminally underrated.
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That's a bit harsh imo, although there's a fair bit of truth there. Tate changed when Chris left - he has been quoted saying he was hurt and felt betrayed by how it happened, and it's obvious he carried resentment. If he didn't he would not have essentially ran Chris out of the studio during the Tribe session, when Chris just wanted to sit on the vocal recordings and help with the melody lines like they used to (not during Promised Land, Tate was going through a divorce and was bitter and lashing out). After that, yeah, things happened just like you said.

Tate is in a better place now. You can tell by how he acts that he isn't riddled with bitterness anymore. Tate quite obviously handles negative emotions in a destructive way. I've met him twice (one time meet and greet, the other time I snuck in the venue during soundcheck and just watched it), and he was courteous. I think he, obviously, is flawed, but seems like a good guy when he's in a good place. And, as a fan, the most important thing of all; he sings very well again.

... And I think there's about 1 good album in "The Key" trilogy, if you compile the good/decent songs. The Sweet Oblivion stuff is good, and the first album in particular shows some serious QR vibes. The modern Queensryche offers some great material, and I'm probably going to see them on tour in 2 weeks or so.

Edit: I'd like to read that recent interview where he states he's Queensryche. I've read a fair bit of interviews, but I haven't read him saying similar stuff since the lawsuit.
 
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That quote came from an Interview way after the lawsuit. Too bad I dont remember whicb online mag it was. He said it when he interviewer told him about Rockenfield leaving the band.

Well, yes, maybe I am somewhat harsh, but everything that came to light after the split felt so repulsive, like not informing the original members about decisions, completely ignoring their vetoes, replacing them in the studio without consulting them, using the name without he rights, putting his family into management against the member's wishes etc... it is quite a lot.
He seems to have a giant ego. I recently watched interviews from the Empire era. DeGarmo is the only one who is allowed to say some words, all the other guys get pushed aside by Tate constantly. Brilliant singer, no question. But LaTorre is a worthy replacement, QR really are better of without Tate.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
Well, yes, maybe I am somewhat harsh, but everything that came to light after the split felt so repulsive, like not informing the original members about decisions, completely ignoring their vetoes, replacing them in the studio without consulting them, using the name without he rights, putting his family into management against the member's wishes etc... it is quite a lot.
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Yes, he was acting like a shit back then. His control freak treatment, I think, is an effect of his bitterness over DeGarmo's departure and his general disdain for Heavy Metal at the time combined with the ego. So Tate did what he wanted, because he knew that in that time, he was close to irreplaceable.
 
Yax said:
Yes, he was acting like a shit back then. His control freak treatment, I think, is an effect of his bitterness over DeGarmo's departure and his general disdain for Heavy Metal at the time combined with the ego. So Tate did what he wanted, because he knew that in that time, he was close to irreplaceable.
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Yes, this is probably the correct explanation. No proper excuse, though. Being bitter is understandable, but forcing your bitterness onto others is not good. His dislike for Metal is well documented. Makes me wonder why one plays in a Metal band, then. Oh right, they sold 20 million records.
He once said that there never was any comeradie between them. Ever. Wonder if thats true.
 
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Eddie's Uncle said:
Yes, this is probably the correct explanation. No proper excuse, though. Being bitter is understandable, but forcing your bitterness onto others is not good. His dislike for Metal is well documented. Makes me wonder why one plays in a Metal band, then. Oh right, they sold 20 million records.
He once said that there never was any comeradie between them. Ever. Wonder if thats true.
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No, I don't think it's true, they spent blood sweat and tears together in the early years. Though, I think that's what it seems to him like through the lens of resentment. But by the Promised Land sessions, the comeraderie between Tate and the rest had ended, an educated guess based on what we know, in part because his failing marriage.
 
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Yax said:
No, I don't think it's true, they spend blood sweat and tears together in the early years. Though, I think that's what it seems to him like through the lens of resentment. But by the Promised Land sessions, the comeraderie between Tate and the rest had ended, an educated guess based on what we know, in part because his failing marriage.
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Likely true. However, some bands are indeed groups that never were friends right from the beginning, Slayer or Killing Joke for example. Guess we will never know unless the other guys give a statement.

I just revisited the first 5 albums last week, and I can't repeat often enough what a great album Promised Land is. To me, it is their best album, even better than O:M. One weak song (I Am I), everything else is perfect. Somgwriting, production, performance, lyrics. Very thoughtful, insightful, well written. Lady Jane may seem like a nice ballad, but it is SUCH a dark monster beneath its surface.
Speaking of O:M, the album is musically a true classic and one of the best Metal albums of the 80s, clearly rivaling Maiden. However, the concept story of O:M is laughable, really cringe.

To this day, I am unsure how to rate Empire. It is just as well crafted as OM and PL, but also too safe, too commercial. Silent Lucidity may be their biggest song, but it is far from their best (not even their best ballad). I guess it is a great album on its own, but unfortunately stands between their 2 greatest efforts, which both outclass it easily.
As for the first 2, I think they are both on the same level, wih maybe Rage For Order being slightly better. Both albums are well deserved classics, even though O:M was a clear step up.
 
Yeah, I think O:M, Empire and Promised Land rank between perfect and flawless. O:M is my favorite album by any band, but I rank Empire a 10/10 and Promised Land and Rage a nine. I think I Am I is a great song, and especially comes to life in a live setting - if I have to point to a weak track, Disconnected is the closest there is to a filler, though a very enjoyable track in its own right.

Geoff did Rage justice the last run he did with it. The few shows he did before the pandemic were a bit rough, both in terms of his then new band and his own performance (I caught the Jan 17th show), but the post-pandemic run was usually killer, and I'm very happy to have seen it.
 
Mindcrime certainly is an excellent album, but perfect or flawless? Come on. There's hardly a drag in a classic 80's metal album comparable to the over ten minutes of melodramatic tedium that is Suite Sister Mary. It completely destroys the album's pace, and The Needle Lies comes as a true liberation afterwards.

The run from Revolution Calling to Spreading the Disease is what makes the album. A breathless succession of four classic heavy metal tunes. But then Mindcrime starts to suffer from a strong case of Concept Album Disease, i.e. long interludes, Broadway melodrama and spoken word passages that have no merit on their own and only serve to advance a storyline. Needle, I Don't Believe in Love and Eyes of a Stranger are actually the best on the album, and yes, indeed some of the best of 80's metal, but Electric Requiem again stops the flow just when it was picking up again. And then there's this boring interlude of Waiting for 22/My Empty Room. 22 is a nice instrumental in its own right, but just slows down the album again, and I just hate Empty Room. So Mindcrime has four tracks I usually skip or that otherwise have me waiting for the good stuff, similar to side 3 of Pink Floyd's The Wall, which is bookended by two of the three best songs the band ever recorded, and has so much weird shit in the middle that has little to no musical value in its own right.
 
Perun said:
Mindcrime certainly is an excellent album, but perfect or flawless? Come on. There's hardly a drag in a classic 80's metal album comparable to the over ten minutes of melodramatic tedium that is Suite Sister Mary. It completely destroys the album's pace, and The Needle Lies comes as a true liberation afterwards.
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You had me until you started trashing Suite Sister Mary, which is an excellent song. For me the album's dropoff comes after with the instrumental interludes and filler-y speed metal tracks that seem to get a pass because they move the story along. I still think Mindcrime is an excellent album, but yes it isn't flawless.

I also feel like there's this rivalry between Mindcrime and Seventh Son where Mindcrime is often regarded as the album Maiden was attempting to make. While I don't necessarily think one album is clearly better than the other, I do think there was merit in Maiden not strictly adhering to their concept and making sure that each song (or nearly each song) was of the highest quality possible. There's certainly less filler on Seventh Son.

On the topic of Queensryche, I think my general rankings of the classic albums would look something like this:

Mindcrime
Empire
The Warning
Promised Land
Rage for Order

Promised Land has a lot of interesting stuff but is pretty meandering. Empire is more commercial for sure but I can't deny the quality of each track. If there ever was a flawless Queensryche album, Empire on a technical level is it. But Mindcrime's highs and general execution of its concept put it at #1 for me.

Even though it ranks #3, I think more often than not when I listen to Queensryche these days I reach for The Warning first. I wish they had more than a couple pure metal albums before they went all in on prog with Mindcrime.
 
Yeah, O:M is my favorite album by any band. I don't think there's a second in there that's redundant or any fraction of a note I'd change.
 
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