Psychological Questions (?)

[!--quoteo(post=129431:date=Feb 21 2006, 07:29 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Feb 21 2006, 07:29 PM) [snapback]129431[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Is this what you think when the genre of grindcore is mentioned?
[/quote]Are you obsessed with youtube or something? ::
It is quite funny though [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=129397:date=Feb 21 2006, 12:21 AM:name=Onhell)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Feb 21 2006, 12:21 AM) [snapback]129397[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I was under the impression you hated in Flames....
[/quote]

I do. But there are other melodic death metal bands I like, such as Withering Surface.
 
Most threads spiral off into the abyss Black Dragon. You shouldn't feel too bad. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /] in fact few make it this far.
 
Well. I think that there's various reasons for your analysis.

Dealing with Band E first, I believe it's because Metal is supposed to be an attitude and a lifestyle. Metal is often about real things - history, religion, politics, art, literature - rather than the standard sex drugs and rock and roll of Rolling Stones fame. As well, metal bands are supposed to respect their fans. Metallica has no respect for their fans. The people who buy their albums are simply sheep to their eyes.

The first situation is because of a simple human tradition of memories, like one person (Conor?) said. Rose goggles. When that album was released, not only Band A but the person was at the high point of his/her life. He/she of course wants to relive that as much as possible...
 
[!--quoteo(post=130446:date=Mar 2 2006, 09:58 PM:name=LooseCannon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Mar 2 2006, 09:58 PM) [snapback]130446[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Rose goggles.
[/quote]
Several years ago, I actually knew a person who always wore rose-tinted glasses. He literally saw the world through rose goggles. You'd expect such a person to be full of joy, right? Well, this guy was always a pessimist and frequently a complete bastard. That doesn't mean I didn't like him - we usually got along great. But it goes to show that rose goggles don't mean jack. Sometimes.

I've stated (at great length, in another thread) that I do not believe Metallica are sellouts. Not in the slightest bit. And for most of their career, I think they were as good to their fans as most bands. But things seem to have changed. In the last 6 years, they have committed two terrible offenses:

1. Napster
2. Releasing St. Anger

However, I balance this out against the rest of their career, which I respect. Given the recent news that Rick Rubin is producing their next album, I am highly optimistic that things are getting better.
 
[!--quoteo(post=130453:date=Mar 3 2006, 09:23 AM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Mar 3 2006, 09:23 AM) [snapback]130453[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
and frequently a complete bastard. That doesn't mean I didn't like him[/quote]

Why, why doesn't this surprise me? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]


[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]I've stated (at great length, in another thread) that I do not believe Metallica are sellouts. Not in the slightest bit. And for most of their career, I think they were as good to their fans as most bands. But things seem to have changed. In the last 6 years, they have committed two terrible offenses:

1. Napster
2. Releasing St. Anger

However, I balance this out against the rest of their career, which I respect. Given the recent news that Rick Rubin is producing their next album, I am highly optimistic that things are getting better.
[/quote]

I hate St. Anger, but have they sold out with it? Not to the slightest bit. Does a band sell out when they radically change their style? Get real. Just because someone doesn't like an album, they always cry "sellout" because they feel the need to justify their opinion. And because they can't bear other people actually liking it. Search in the depths of the Commentary forums to find the posts of a person named "DOD=Weak" to see what I mean; to justify his dislike of Dance Of Death, he claimed it was pop rock.
 
I think you misunderstood me, Perun. As I stated, I do NOT believe that Metallica has ever sold out. I am NOT claiming that they did so because I dislike St. Anger. I am stating that in releasing St. Anger, they did a disservice to their fans. That album should never have seen the light of day for multiple reasons, foremost among them the godawful drum sound. Between that lousy album and their self-indulgent documentary, they have done the opposite of selling out: they have alienated all but the most hardcore fanatics and the most tone-deaf nu-metal fans.

But this may turn out to be their saving grace, in the long run. Metallica were at their creative peak when they were underdogs fighting for recognition and respect. They've gone a considerable way towards putting themselves back in that position. As I said above, I remain confident that their next album will be good (assuming they let Kirk solo this time).

But if they put out another pile of horse dung like St. Anger again, I'm gonna go to San Francisco and slap Hetfield.
 
[!--quoteo(post=130468:date=Mar 3 2006, 11:59 AM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Mar 3 2006, 11:59 AM) [snapback]130468[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I think you misunderstood me, Perun. As I stated, I do NOT believe that Metallica has ever sold out. [/quote]


No, I understood you correctly. I was just voicing my opinion too. No idea why I had to quote you for that though [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=130468:date=Mar 3 2006, 10:59 AM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Mar 3 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]130468[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]

But if they put out another pile of horse dung like St. Anger again, I'm gonna go to San Francisco and slap Hetfield.
[/quote]

Hear hear! Although, even if they keep to nu-metal, and even if their new album is complete trash (aren't those possibilities the same thing? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]), we'll still have their older, good material to keep us entertained. And if you get the chance to slap him, give him one from me. But slap Lars as well, and slap him harder

Danish Bastard.

In order to keep from offending any Danes, that comment is only in reference to the Napster debacle.
And the fact that he lost his drumkit before recording and had to play on a tin of Quality Street [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=130528:date=Mar 3 2006, 08:46 PM:name=Silky)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Silky @ Mar 3 2006, 08:46 PM) [snapback]130528[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Although, even if they keep to nu-metal, and even if their new album is complete trash (aren't those possibilities the same thing? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /])[/quote]
It's thrash metal with a h between the t and the r.

[!--quoteo(post=130528:date=Mar 3 2006, 08:46 PM:name=Silky)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Silky @ Mar 3 2006, 08:46 PM) [snapback]130528[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
And the fact that he lost his drumkit before recording and had to play on a tin of Quality Street [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
[/quote]
Original :: If you ignore the drums, that album isn't all that bad.
 
[!--quoteo(post=130529:date=Mar 3 2006, 01:52 PM:name=Conor)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Mar 3 2006, 01:52 PM) [snapback]130529[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
If you ignore the drums, that album isn't all that bad.
[/quote]
I've tried - many times. But I find it impossible. I love good drums. They don't have to be virtuostic, but the sound has to be good.

In other words, I have no particular problem with the musical content of what Lars played on St. Anger. If the drum sound had been like previous Metallica albums, I would have been happy with it.

The problems of St. Anger go deeper than the drums. If it's Metallica, I want to hear Kirk solo. Hetfield's lyrics were substandard. Portions of songs were too repetitive. Still, if the drums had sounded normal, I could have lived with all of that. I doubt it would ever be one of my preferred Metallica albums, but I could have found it listenable.
 
Considering that some people don't like others listening to their bands, here is a possible explanation:

The reason people are against their favorite bands getting big is a complex one, but here's my theory: When you get into an underground band you become attatched to them emotionally because it was so hard to find them and there's so few fans. They basically become your band. When they get popular, you become afraid that they'll start pandering to these new fans that you feel know nothing about the music, and will give up their integrety to appease these what you consider scene wrecking worthless assholes who are trying to steal your band, the one you love, the one you grew up with and was loyal to long before they were even a blip on those people's radars.

Anybody agree? ::
 
[!--quoteo(post=131082:date=Mar 7 2006, 07:15 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Mar 7 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]131082[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Considering that some people don't like others listening to their bands, here is a possible explanation:
The reason people are against their favorite bands getting big is a complex one, but here's my theory: When you get into an underground band you become attatched to them emotionally because it was so hard to find them and there's so few fans. They basically become your band.
Anybody agree? ::
[/quote]
I certainly agree with this statement. We all hate "sell outs" and we all want to have something to call our own. This is why we love the underdogs... It's great that i'm the only person I know personally how loves Children of Bodom for example. It sets me apart from them all and if tomorrow, CoB sold out and everybody started liking them, I would feel severely disowned and disappointed. This is a bit stupid though because at one stage, there were CoB fans when I knew nothing about them. They must have felt disappointed when the band got a bit more famous and lost their underground status. One man's "tr00" is anothers "sellout" [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /]
 
One thing that annoys me about the mallgoths that like Bodom is that 2 years ago, they hadn't heard of them, but now they're the ultimate fans all of a sudden because Hot Topic sells their t-shirts. Hot Topic even sell Darkthrone jackets now. :: Probably some feeble attept to draw tr00 kvltists like me into giving them money. That's not going to happen any decade soon. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
You need to pace yourself with strict guidelines when you discover a new band!

-Purchase of a new band's shirts must only occur once every three weeks
-Reading biography or detailed history on the band must be done at same pace it has occured I.E. to speak about Maiden in their Powerslave period you must wait four years since discovering them

Hmm... What else... [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=130468:date=Mar 3 2006, 10:59 AM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Mar 3 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]130468[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]I do NOT believe that Metallica has ever sold out. [/quote]

St. Anger, while being by far their worst effort is also extremely far from radio rock and has been so successful in not making the band scads of money from licensing and airplay that one has to question whether it was a miscalculation or whether Metallica truly does not care about public opinion. Selling out doesn't mean changing style. Selling out is defined as changing ones values in order to make money. A good example is Kid Rock. The man's main interest was in southern rock, but he made a few abysmal rap-rock albums in order to make an assload of cash. So, where do people get off saying Amorphis sold out? They didn't want to play death metal anymore. Their sound progressed, deal with it. Ditto Carcass. Do you seriously think that Bill Steer and the boys wanted to play goregrind for the rest of their lives? (Heartwork is a damn good record [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] )
 
I still have a very good interview with Lars Ulrich somewhere in which he makes his statments to all these topics. I might translate some parts and post them here later today.
 
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