Poll: The weakest 80's Maiden album?

[MrKnickerbocker]

Stranger in a Strange Land is the weakest song on an album that contains Heaven Can Wait, Deja Vu, a song with lyrics written by a middle school history teacher and a dramatic song about competitive running. Also, Virtual XI is Maiden’s magnum opus.

 

[Vaenyr]

Nah, Sea Of Madness is the weakest, Stranger is my second least favorite

HCW is filled with great melodies and the entire middle section is awesome.
Deja Vu is one of their best rockers.
TLOTLDR might have bad lyrics, but the song itself is one of their best for the entire 80s and my favorite song on SIT.
Alex has shitty lyrics as well, but does a lot of interesting things musically.

SOM on the other hand has an annoying main riff with some of the most obnoxious vocal lines in a Maiden song (imo of course). Never cared for Stranger's chorus/main riff either.

And yeah, VXI is awesome

 

[Fozzie]

Deja Vu is one of their best rockers.

We agree on this!

And yeah, VXI is awesome

Oh yeah, it`s a hidden gem

 

[karljant]

HCW is filled with great melodies and the entire middle section is awesome.
TLOTLDR might have bad lyrics, but the song itself is one of their best for the entire 80s and my favorite song on SIT.
Alex has shitty lyrics as well, but does a lot of interesting things musically.

Couldn't agree more with these takes. Especially TLOTLDR (my favorite tune on par with WY) and how the boring history lesson lyrics shave a bit of Alexander's charm (despite musically being one hell of a tune).

SOM on the other hand has an annoying main riff with some of the most obnoxious vocal lines in a Maiden song (imo of course).

Now this is where we disagree. Absolute monster of a song IMO. Heavy as hell and yes, the mid section is pure gold.

Never cared for Stranger's chorus/main riff either.

Also love it... yet perhaps one of the ones I fancy less among the pack.

In my book SIT, SSOASS and Powerslave have nothing but kick ass material. And POM would be the same if they dropped QFF (and TBH I consider Sun and Steel to be merely good).

 

[Vaenyr]

And POM would be the same if they dropped QFF (and TBH I consider Sun and Steel to be merely good).

Funnily enough QFF is similar to TLOTLDR for me in the sense that I ignore the goofy lyrics and appreciate the music and melodies. I absolutely adore its instrumental section, and the guitar tone for the solos in particular is just glorious. One of my favorites on POM because of that!

Sun And Steel on the other hand has some cool ideas, but the chorus is a bit too annoying and happy-go-lucky for my tastes.

 

[karljant]

the chorus is a bit too annoying and happy-go-lucky for my tastes

Yup... it's exactly the only thing I dislike.

Funnily enough QFF is similar to TLOTLDR for me in the sense that I ignore the goofy lyrics and appreciate the music and melodies. I absolutely adore its instrumental section, and the guitar tone for the solos in particular is just glorious.

Here's where our tastes differ. I also like QFF's instrumental, and (like anyone else, I hope) also think the lyrics are crap. Now, when it comes to TLOTLDR's lyrics, while far from top tier poetry, it doesn't annoy me the least. Yet, where I think there's a huge chasm between the two tracks is Bruce's choice of melody. TLOTLDR's IMO is easily one of my top 10 Bruce vocal performances (and also a top 10 Maiden song), yet I utterly detest QFF's vocals: the falsettos, the jig like feel... man it just doesn't add up as far as I'm concerned. I wrote this when commenting POM: were the band to make a short instrumental out of QFF filled with harmonies and solos, it would certainly be one hell of a song!

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

"Weakest" and HCW in the same sentence is unthinkable in my book. 10 ou of 10 even with a somewhat repetitive chorus. Which is a trait common to other fan favorites: Deja Vu, Fear Of The Dark, SSOASS, The Wicker Man, Brave New World, Blood Brothers and For The Greater Good Of God (just to name some), and IMO none of them lose their charm despite that aspect.

Deja Vu a fan fave? That's news to me. Mind you, for me it is a fave indeed. One of my all time fave Maiden tracks. But that's a rare thing, the song is often regarded as filler. I wish it would get the praise it deserves.

Repetitive choruses are the achilles heel of modern Maiden (read post reunion). There were some repeat-lines-over-and-over choruses on early albums too, but they were a minority and even then, the lines each differed a little. In Deja Vu, the chorus lines are not exactly identical, the differ slightly in every second line.
On post reunion Maiden albums, they are usually exactly identical, and that's not the exception, it's the standard. Plus, the vocals often simply follow the guitar melody to make it even more repititive. In many post reunion Maiden songs, the chorus is the weakest part of the track. Different World is a perfect example. Great song, but the chorus really drags it down.
It is a development that really came to be with VXI and existed ever since.

 

[Vaenyr]

Repetitive choruses are the achilles heel of modern Maiden (read post reunion). There were some repeat-lines-over-and-over choruses on early albums too, but they were a minority and even then, the lines each differed a little. In Deja Vu, the chorus lines are not exactly identical, the differ slightly in every second line.
On post reunion Maiden albums, they are usually exactly identical, and that's not the exception, it's the standard. Plus, the vocals often simply follow the guitar melody to make it even more repititive. In many post reunion Maiden songs, the chorus is the weakest part of the track. Different World is a perfect example. Great song, but the chorus really drags it down.
It is a development that really came to be with VXI and existed ever since.

Eeeh, that's rather selective and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You mention Deja Vu which has two distinct lines that are repeated over and over. The exact same thing applies to Blood Brothers or The Wicker Man. Brave New World (the title track) goes a step further, flips the lyrics and introduced further variations in the second half. Taking just Senjutsu as an example, most of the tracks have elaborate choruses with few repetitions. LIALW is somewhat repetitive, but even that is still more involved than Deja Vu for example. Hell On Earth, which became an instant classic with the fandom, is commonly criticized for not repeating its beloved chorus more than once.

You might dislike Different World, but it has a proper chorus with different vocal lines and a sense of progression, unlike say Deja Vu or SSOASS. I'd argue the repetitive choruses isn't a pre or post reunion thing but a "did Steve write that song or not" thing. He's always, from the get go, had a tendency to repeat simple vocal lines, arguably due to the influence of football chants which tend to be simple and catchy so that everyone can immediately sing along.

You'll quickly see that the songs with the more elaborate choruses often tend to be co-written by Bruce. And yeah, while there are tracks like Rainmaker that repeat the majority of the lyrics, this is something that's been a Maiden staple since the beginning: Multiple tracks on the first two albums do the same thing, with some songs like Another Life consisting entirely of a single verse repeated thrice.

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

Eeeh, that's rather selective and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You mention Deja Vu which has two distinct lines that are repeated over and over. The exact same thing applies to Blood Brothers or The Wicker Man.

Deja Vu chorus is used twice in the song, and it's a fast song, it's over quickly. Blood Brothers chorus and many others are repeated way more often within the song. And Blood Brothers is way slower and much more drawn out. Totally different effect. SSOASS chorus has the same problem, and I indeed think that chorus could have been better. While it is a great song, the chorus prevents it from being 10/10.
I don't deny that Maiden also did this repitition in the 80s too. Alas, much less frequently so.

Brave New World (the title track) goes a step further, flips the lyrics and introduced further variations in the second half. Taking just Senjutsu as an example, most of the tracks have elaborate choruses with few repetitions.

Sure, there are tracks in post reunion Maiden that don't have the problem at all. But the tendency to copy-paste-choruses is much bigger than in the early days.

LIALW is somewhat repetitive, but even that is still more involved than Deja Vu for example.

How so? I don't see that at all.

Hell On Earth, which became an instant classic with the fandom, is commonly criticized for not repeating its beloved chorus more than once.

This only proves that unlike me, most people seem to love these endless repititions. But that's all it says.
By the way, it is not so much the number of times a chorus appears within a song that bothers me, but that those choruses consist of the same line being repeated over and over with ZERO variation. I usually quote No More Lies as the best example for this.
In some cases it hurts the song only a little, in others very much so.

You might dislike Different World, but it has a proper chorus with different vocal lines and a sense of progression, unlike say Deja Vu or SSOASS. I'd argue the repetitive choruses isn't a pre or post reunion thing but a "did Steve write that song or not" thing. He's always, from the get go, had a tendency to repeat simple vocal lines, arguably due to the influence of football chants which tend to be simple and catchy so that everyone can immediately sing along.

Yes, maybe this is a "Steve thing". To be honest, I never paid that much attention to what was written by whom. However, I noticed that this phenomenon appeared more often on albums from VXI onwards. Before that, it was 1-2 songs per album, after that it got more, 3-6 songs per album.

You'll quickly see that the songs with the more elaborate choruses often tend to be co-written by Bruce. And yeah, while there are tracks like Rainmaker that repeat the majority of the lyrics, this is something that's been a Maiden staple since the beginning: Multiple tracks on the first two albums do the same thing, with some songs like Another Life consisting entirely of a single verse repeated thrice.

Well it's not about the lyrics (The Trooper chorus has no proper lyrics at all and still is awesome), but the melodic approach.

 

[Vaenyr]

Deja Vu chorus is used twice in the song, and it's a fast song, it's over quickly. Blood Brothers chorus and many others are repeated way more often within the song. And Blood Brothers is way slower and much more drawn out. Totally different effect.

Whether you like it or not is totally subjective, but BB has a completely different goal. It's an epic, not a short rocker. Given its runtime the chorus barely takes up any time. I also mentioned The Wicker Man as another example, which is a more apt comparison and only repeats its chorus one time more than Deja Vu.

Sure, there are tracks in post reunion Maiden that don't have the problem at all. But the tendency to copy-paste-choruses is much bigger than in the early days.

This is said quite often but I don't think it's actually true. I'll have to look into the whole matter more in depth though to make some proper assessments.

How so? I don't see that at all.

Actual variation in the lyrics is already one point in favor of LIALW.

This only proves that unlike me, most people seem to love these endless repititions. But that's all it says.

No, it says that HOE has one of the more beloved choruses and that people find it's a shame that the one song with a phenomenal chorus is the one that doesn't repeat it at all.

By the way, it is not so much the number of times a chorus appears within a song that bothers me, but that those choruses consist of the same line being repeated over and over with ZERO variation. I usually quote No More Lies as the best example for this.
In some cases it hurts the song only a little, in others very much so.

Eh, even that is not a new thing. While No More Lies is one glaring offender in that regard, it is also an outlier. The live versions show that they are aware, by Bruce altering the lines here and there. Most post-reunion choruses that reuse the same lyric are in the vein of the 80s choruses like Deja Vu, CSIT or SSOASS. On the other hand there are songs in the 80s like Sun And Steel that keep repeating the same exact line over and over again. They've been doing this for literal decades at this point.

Yes, maybe this is a "Steve thing". To be honest, I never paid that much attention to what was written by whom. However, I noticed that this phenomenon appeared more often on albums from VXI onwards. Before that, it was 1-2 songs per album, after that it got more, 3-6 songs per album.

Good time to do a deep dive into the writing credits then! It'll reveal quite a few fun and interesting connections.

Well it's not about the lyrics (The Trooper chorus has no proper lyrics at all and still is awesome), but the melodic approach.

Funny that you mention this while quoting my point about the first two albums copy/pasting entire verses, sometimes even consisting of a single verse repeated three times in a row without any lyrical or melodic changes lol

Don't get me wrong, you're free to like and dislike what you want. But when there's a claim about something we can actually verify to a degree I think it's worth pushing back. Sometimes certain biases (loving the 80s material, being a fan of the reunion stuff vs disliking it, and so on) cloud what we actually hear and see by confirming what we want to be true, rather than what is true.

 

[Diesel 11]

I also mentioned The Wicker Man as another example, which is a more apt comparison and only repeats its chorus one time more than Deja Vu.

It repeats the chorus two more times than Deja Vu, the chorus is longer, and the outro is like two more choruses.

It’s the better song though. I don’t think Deja Vu fully comes together. The chorus is goos but a lot more lackluster than the other ones mentioned.

 

[Vaenyr]

It repeats the chorus two more times than Deja Vu, the chorus is longer, and the outro is like two more choruses.

It’s the better song though. I don’t think Deja Vu fully comes together. The chorus is goos but a lot more lackluster than the other ones mentioned.

Fair points! And I can conced that on average the reunion material probably suffers more from the issues Eddies's Uncle mentioned. I think that the difference between the eras isn't as large as originally presented though.