OPETH Week On Maidenfans (8/25 - 9/1)

Favorite Opeth albums? (Pick up to 3)

  • Total voters
    10
Mosh said:
To me it sounds like they forced themselves to write a heavy album to please the potential naysayers for Damnation.
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How can an album sound like that? If the band said that it went like this, yeah. But if they didn't, hmm. Why would they make a record that they're not into themselves? I think they were into this stuff. They recorded it at the same time as Damnation and even wanted to release them together as a double album. The record company would not have it and made separate releases.

I don't think that the intention of Mikael or comparing it with a certain era has anything to do with me enjoying an album. At least, I don't think it should be of (dominating) importance. I listen to the result. E.g. I also enjoy the Iron Maiden debut album, or seventies Priest. I treasure these albums and find qualities of their own. They might not sound like the music these bands are doing now, but that aspect alone doesn't make them worse.
 
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I just found out someone I know is going to see Opeth in Manchester next month. It's possibly the worst night of the week for me, though, so I won't be going. Shame.
 
Forostar said:
How can an album sound like that? If the band said that it went like this, yeah. But if they didn't, hmm. Why would they make a record that they're not into themselves? I think they were into this stuff. They recorded it at the same time as Damnation and even wanted to release them together as a double album. The record company would not have it and made separate releases.

I don't think that the intention of Mikael or comparing it with a certain era has anything to do with me enjoying an album. At least, I don't think it should be of (dominating) importance. I listen to the result. E.g. I also enjoy the Iron Maiden debut album, or seventies Priest. I treasure these albums and find qualities of their own. They might not sound like the music these bands are doing now, but that aspect alone doesn't make them worse.
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Really? You've never heard some music that could be described as uninspired? When a musician doesn't seem into what they're doing, that becomes very clear in the performance. And it's very clear to me when listening to Deliverance. I'm not sure if the band ever said this, but that's irrelevent. I'm just basing this off what I hear. And I hear an album that is frankly half assed. Why would they make the album? Like I said, because they wanted to please those who would worry about them ditching death metal altogether. A double album or not is beside the point. There's actually a similar album by the Foo Fighters called In Your Honor. One disc is the hard rock songs the Foos are known for, the other disc is acoustic more mellow stuff. While I enjoy the album as a whole, I have to say it has the same problem as Deliverance/Damnation. It sounds like they put all their effort into the acoustic disc and the 2nd disc sounds much more forced, to please fans of the rock stuff. It's Foo Fighters going through the motions. Just like Deliverance is Opeth going through the motions.

This isn't even really a statement on quality. Parts of Deliverance are really good, the title track is in my top 3. I really like that Foo Fighters disc 2. That doesn't change the fact that it sounds a little forced.

Anyway, I never said anything about the intentions or era affecting my enjoyment. More saying that the intentions of the album might have to do with it sounding bland (to my ears).
 
Iryo :P

IMO what you're saying about Deliverance applies to Watershed. That album sounds very half assed, meh production, bad growls, trying-too-hard drums, I think Mikael was pressured into making one last metal album and he came up with Watershed.

Deliverance on the other hand sounds dark and unaccessible on purpose. Far, far from half assed, dunno what's making you said that. Maybe you meant uninspired? :P I wouldn't agree, but that I could understand. The point of Deliverance & Damnation was to make two very different records: dark, heavy, extreme, unaccessible = Deliverance & soft, accessible, melodic, relaxing = Damnation.
 
I sorta get what you're saying with Watershed. The best parts are definitely the ones without growls, so it's quite obviously they were trying to move away from that. But the non growled parts (which make up most of the album anyway) are really awesome and genuine sounding.
But Heir Apparent...they were firing on all cylinders with that one.

Half assed and uninspired are somewhat interchangeable for me in this context. I think it's fairly obvious that his heart was more into the mellow stuff, he even seems to enjoy playing that stuff live more.
This reminds me of another problem I have with Deliverance: It swings too much in the direction of heavy. Which was on purpose, but it ruins the album for me at all times. This is more of a personal preference though; I can handle Opeth without the death metal, but Opeth with just the heavy stuff isn't really why I like the band. Of course ideally you'd get a mix of both, which is part of why Ghost Reveries is my favorite album.
 
Deliverance has mellow parts too, plus a song with no growls at all! :P

IMO a half assed album would have to have bad production and sloppy playing and Watershed has both. Uninspired album would just be boring, repetitive or rehashed.
 
And that song happens to be one of the best on the album! :P I know it has mellow parts but the majority is overwhelmingly heavy.

Well I like the playing and production on Watershed, so can't agree there. :p By your definition, Deliverance is uninspired, not half assed.
 
I think that Deliverance does sound somewhat forced, at least with the bookend tracks. As I said before, part of that album just drags on and on. And on some more. I'm not saying that they didn't want to write a heavy record, but I think they may have rushed it a bit.

As for Watershed, it took me more than six years to fully appreciate it. It is without a doubt a mood piece, and I think a lot of fans didn't like it due to the departure of Peter and the addition of the more shreddy Fredrick. Some of the songs also have a lot of start-stop, random free-time quiet section here, blast beat thrash growly verses there... even "Hey guys, let's throw in a jazzy funk interlude for no reason at all" at one point (even if that is my favorite section of the entire record). I can see some making a case that it was "thrown together" or something. But songs like Heir Apparent and Hessian Peel are too powerful and haunting to dismiss. As an album, I'd say Watershed beats Deliverance, as the former has no filler (in my opinion).
 
Mosh said:
Really? You've never heard some music that could be described as uninspired? When a musician doesn't seem into what they're doing, that becomes very clear in the performance. And it's very clear to me when listening to Deliverance. etc.
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Night Prowler said:
Iryo :p

IMO what you're saying about Deliverance applies to Watershed. That album sounds very half assed, meh production, bad growls, trying-too-hard drums, I think Mikael was pressured into making one last metal album and he came up with Watershed.

Deliverance on the other hand sounds dark and unaccessible on purpose. Far, far from half assed, dunno what's making you said that. Maybe you meant uninspired? :p I wouldn't agree, but that I could understand. The point of Deliverance & Damnation was to make two very different records: dark, heavy, extreme, unaccessible = Deliverance & soft, accessible, melodic, relaxing = Damnation.
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I think it could be tempting to say one side of a band is half assed when a band can do (has done) more than one thing. This context attributes to the idea that a band might not be into that side. But no, I really do not hear in the music of Deliverance that they're not behind it. Still need to hear Watershed and later work.
 
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I don't think the band was into one side more than the other (they obviously are now, but people change). They've proved that they have high interest in both the heavy stuff and the mellow progressive stuff. I just don't think it sounded like they were really into the heavy stuff with Deliverance at the time.
 
I have the idea that people's opinion of Deliverance lies on their judgement of 'Wreath', 'Master's Apprentices' and 'By the Pain I See in Others'. There seems to be a consensus on 'Deliverance' and 'A Fair Judgement', while 'For Absent Friends' is not really a song that stands on its own. I initially found Apprentices and BTPISIO weak, an idea that changed over time. 'Master's Apprentices' is one of band's heaviest songs and actually features one of the most brilliant mood swifts the band has ever done. I've grown to like 'By the Pain I See in Others' very recently, one of the most sinister songs the band has ever recorded. I absolutely love the riff in the "Rise to submission" part and the vocals in the calm mid-section.

I still don't find anything appealing on 'Wreath', aside from the drum intro and the percussion interlude.
 
I think it repeats the perfect amount of times. It's more about what's going underneat that riff than the riff itself. It's a very dynamic part that builds up and then breaks down again. It's really genius how they wrote that.
 
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