OPETH SURVIVOR 2016: Results -> The sun sets forever over Blackwater Park!

Yesterday I played MAYH on headphones and I have to say I love it. It is a very strong record. Great vibe and they still do nice changes, haunting guitar lines and effective acoustic passages. More so than on Still Life. April Ethereal is fantastic, but the whole album is a fine ride. It hardly seems to have weak (dull) sections.
 
Still Life is the most complex Opeth album from a guitar playing standpoint.)
One of my beefs with this album is listening to a portion of the riffs! Complex or not, these riffs don't sound very musical to me. Regularly I hear two "randomly" different riffs at the same time and they do not seem to fit that well together. I don't get the logic of this approach. It doesn't happen like this on earlier albums, it doesn't happen on later albums. It sounds too full, cluttered, chaotic and uncomfortable. I miss room, I miss breathing space.
 
One of my beefs with this album is listening to a portion of the riffs! Complex or not, these riffs don't sound very musical to me. Regularly I hear two "randomly" different riffs at the same time and they do not seem to fit that well together. I don't get the logic of this approach. It doesn't happen like this on earlier albums, it doesn't happen on later albums. It sounds too full, cluttered, chaotic and uncomfortable. I miss room, I miss breathing space.

Any examples?

"Logic" isn't the right word to use there. A lot of people, including myself, don't see it the same way as you do, so you can't go out saying putting together two random riffs was the band's "approach".
 
My final thoughts on Morningrise:

Advent - Starting with the cool intro riff, it's clear that the musicality of this album will be much more put together than Orchid. The riffs themselves, however, just aren't that memorable. I wish they'd kept the intro going a little longer. The break before the next heavy riff isn't as effective for me. The riff (with the Lars Ulrich "One" drum intro) before the verse is cool. Mikael's growls are getting better, but the lyrics are utter nonsense. I know that bass slide thing is interesting, but I don't like it. It's just kind of an offputting sound to me. The break with the preview riff is awesome, thankfully it comes back. That jumpy riff from 4:45ish with the Maidenish turnaround is my favorite single riff in the song. The first clean vocals on the album are certainly more confident than Orchid, though the melodies on this song really do nothing for me. The volume swell section in the middle is cool. Orchid style riffs return at 8:15 and...it feels out of place. Now, the insane bass section at 9:30, however, is easily the best part of the entire song. The ending is completely unnecessary. It adds nothing to the song and is entirely too long. Plus, that random fade in part at the end is just terrible. Not my favorite. 6/10

The Night and The Silent Water - Starts out great, I love the beginning. The dynamics and transitions in the first three minutes are quite good. I love the riffing under the first couple verses, but WTF is up with the lyrical "parlour" onbsession? Transitioning in and out of the clean section is a little hamfisted, but it works. The clean vocals are nice and it's clear that this song is actually about something (the death of Mikaels grandfather). I mark this as an important part of the band's songwriting because Mikael actually wrote lyrics from the heart here and they sound so much better. The riff at 5:00 reminds me of Justice-era Metallica with a better rhythm section. Strummed chords make their introduction in Opeth music and it's a great moment. The entire ending to this song is quite powerful. I just wish Mikael had screamed that last part instead of whispering. Also, the acoustics shouldn't have cross faded when the heavy guitars entered. The issues on this song (and album) are mainly production oriented. Ending is poor here, too. 8/10

Nectar - Once again a song opens strong with a cool, rhythm section-driven riff. I love that they let the bass and drums stand out on this track. The fade after the first verse is stupid. Fades seem to be a reoccurring problem with this album. The vocal structure does nothing for me, but the lyrics are coherent (I view it as dealing with a sucubus or some sort of Lovecraftian moon dream demon thing). I love the bass tapping break followed by the "Ooh" grunt riff. A brilliant moment happens at 4:45 with a jazzy Dream Theater fill, but the chugging buildup riff and the walking bass verses that come after it sound like pure slop to me. I truly dislike this section. One of my least favorite Opeth moments ever. The acoustic section that follows, however, is beautiful. The final minute is awesome and clearly a template for outros they would later attempt (i.e. Deliverance) but with wayyyyy cooler bass. The ending is actually too abrupt, an anomaly for this album. 7/10

Black Rose Immortal - Attacking right from the get-go, this song is very good. Not perfect, but a truly commendable effort. The first verse is an onslaught and Mikael's "spiritual eclipse" growl shows shades of his later vocal power. Of course, this track falls victim to fades (and sound FX) going in and out of sections, which I dislike, but all the individual parts are so good. Coolest pieces are the Maidenish section with the funky bass between 2-3 minutes, Mortal Kombat section at 7:30, the short guitar solo after with the wicked chord turnarounds, the acoustic section with the drum buildup, the Afraid To Shoot Strangers riff over the "black rose immortal" verse, the maniacal Dave Mustaine solo at 16:40, and dat final scream tho. The acapella part is ballsy and I like the effect, but the melody isn't there. Same goes for all the clean vocals here. Anyway, a noble effort and a badass musical journey. 8/10

To Bid You Farewell - The music on this song is perfection. Mikael's voice is not completely prepared for it yet and some of the melodies could be better, but it all just works so well that I can't fault them for later improvements. My biggest gripe is that the melody on the line "Once it came you lied" is godly, but the tail end of the line "Embracing us over..." fumbles on the dismount. But it's a small gripe because the guitar solos after it are pure magic. The bass, the leads, the wah chords, god this song is so perfect. It's a beautiful song and easily, far and away, and undoubtedly the best composition from the first two albums. 10/10
 
Well Knick, you're not alone in finding the opening track the least good one.
The ending is completely unnecessary. It adds nothing to the song and is entirely too long.
Absolutely.
Also, the acoustics shouldn't have cross faded when the heavy guitars entered. The issues on this song (and album) are mainly production oriented. Ending is poor here, too. 8/10
I really like that cross fading! Gives an extra touch to it.
I can't fault them for later improvements.
That's a very open minded approach, if I may say so. You focus so well on this song for its own qualities, that you do not let a comparison with other stuff be in your way.

@The Flash I'm on a My Arms Your Hearse binge at the moment but I'll get into that later. I do not have clear examples ready. I'd need to play the album again.
 
I really like that cross fading! Gives an extra touch to it.

I don't hate it and it's definitely an interesting choice, but I think it makes an otherwise coherent section feel more disconnected than necessary. But, that could have been exactly what they were going for.

I've listened to both of these albums at least 5-6 times over the last week, so I'm excited to start digging into MYAH (where the sound really begins to take shape).
 
One of my beefs with this album is listening to a portion of the riffs! Complex or not, these riffs don't sound very musical to me. Regularly I hear two "randomly" different riffs at the same time and they do not seem to fit that well together. I don't get the logic of this approach. It doesn't happen like this on earlier albums, it doesn't happen on later albums. It sounds too full, cluttered, chaotic and uncomfortable. I miss room, I miss breathing space.

I'd also like to hear examples. The riffs in Godhead's Lament are mostly quite atonal, but they're meant to be. Remember that this is a story about religious persecution and earthly love, which is arguably more "real" than the ghostly chronicles of MAYH. Moonlapse Vertigo has that amazing layered intro and arguably one of the best riffs they've ever done in the verses, plus the cool clean guitar/bass mix-up before the heavy solo section. Face of Melinda's second half is also a top 10 Opeth riff. Serenity Painted Death is chock full of riffs, like the chorus one and the brutal section where Melinda dies.

Oddly, I find the opening and closing tracks to be my least favorite (behind Benighted, the weakest track). Everyone loves The Moor but nothing really stands out to me other than the first heavy riff and the acoustic Melinda section in the middle. White Cluster has a few cool moments, like the acoustic teasing buildup and the solos that follow, but it fails to leave the marks that four of the other songs do. But more on this stuff when Still Life pops up in the coming weeks.

This album is the opposite of a wall of sound (which is what I think of most of MAYH). Still Life's major riffs are the tightest the band has been up to this point, and the album's "wall of sound" sections (the ending vocal moments of Moonlapse and Serenity, for example) are clearer, crisper, and more coherent than anything on MAYH. Even the chaotic sections - such as the Godhead's intro and the section following the first chorus of Serenity - are more dynamic than 99% of MAYH. Still Life's riffs simply have more start-stop dynamics and breaks. This is where I think the sound of all their albums up until Heritage was born. They perfected this sound on Blackwater Park, but I actually think Still Life is more consistent as there isn't a weak song to be found.

All in all, Still Life took the excellent riffage style of the two or three strongest songs from MAYH and made an entire album of it. And how can I find problems with that?!
 
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Slow down guys, no need to go 2 albums in front so fast. I'm updating tonight, need to listen to these songs one more time while reading all your comments :) I promise it'll go faster now :)
 
I'm curious to hear more when MAYH comes on. Maybe some of your views of MAYH have changed. Mine has, as yours on the first two albums.

I actually listened to the whole thing last night and wrote a song-by-song review but I'll wait for the MAYH round.

Slow down guys, no need to go 2 albums in front so fast. I'm updating tonight, need to listen to these songs one more time while reading all your comments :) I promise it'll go faster now :)

We can't; the songs on Orchid and Morningrise are too simple so we had to move forward!

If you fuckers vote out Benighted in the first round, I swear I will summon an army of ghouls to gird you with a parlour strode as the night sets forever in moonlit sorrow.

I'm not a fucker but I'll most certainly be voting that song off first. It's not bad or anything but it's the weakest link here and it never seems to really go anywhere.
 
I re-read the whole thread at last.

I can be honest with this now, considering SMX isn't on the forum anymore:
I don't care about bass. I know some albums that have awesome bass playing, but I never go:
"Damn, this song is cool but I wish it had more audible bass."
Now that I can't use headphones I can hear it even less, so...

Drumming is OK on these albums, but it's quite monotone and simple.
There's not a single memorable drum fill or anything near Lopez or Axe.

But the Martins aren't Anders and De Farfalla either! These guys really added colour to the early albums. I do not feel the same with later Opeth. The rhythm is just there, playing along.
I think it's completely the opposite.

Orchid:
My opinion changed a bit. Forest Of October drops to 3rd favorite, Twilight is #1, Mist is #2. The rest is mostly forgettable. So voting for Under The Weeping Moon, Silhouette, Requiem, The Apostle In Triumph and Into The Frost Of Winter.

Morningrise:
As I said before, first two songs slay everything from these two albums. So the only question for me was which one is my 3rd favorite from this album, and I decided it's To Bid You Farewell. So voting for Nectar (is it just me, or did they use the opening riff on another song?) and Eternal Soul Torture. Would've voted for Black Rose Immortal too, but ran out of votes.

Update incoming!
 
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Eliminated after Round 1:
Requiem - 6 votes
Into The Frost Of Winter - 6 votes
Eternal Soul Torture - 6 votes
Silhouette - 5 votes
Nectar - 4 votes

My Arms, Your Hearse joins the game!
 
Haven't had the time listen to the earlier stuff. I'll try to vote in this round but I'm still not sure if I'll make it. I'll definitely be voting when Still Life enters the game though!
 
I can be honest with this now, considering SMX isn't on the forum anymore:
I don't care about bass. I know some albums that have awesome bass playing, but I never go:
"Damn, this song is cool but I wish it had more audible bass."
Now that I can't use headphones I can hear it even less, so...

Detective and I are still are on the forum though :p

I'm not surprised by this at all. No offense, but you are a pretty one-dimensional listener of music, and that dimension is a genre that doesn't make much use of bass. I can easily see someone who doesn't like prog rock, funk, jazz or blues not developing a taste for it.
 
My Arms, Your Hearse, as discussed shortly before, is a transitional record. It still features the stream-of-consciousness style of writing in the first two albums, but leaves more room for vocals to lead the sound. However, Mikael isn't able to craft catchy vocal melodies at this point so it doesn't work as well as it could have with future Mikael at the helm. Lack of coherence is mostly out of the window with this album, Mikael is more adept at stringing pieces together. Might have something to do with him taking on the "sole writer" role with this album instead of writing the songs with Peter.

The sound is different compared to the first two albums, cleaner production, the influence of bass on the sound goes away with the band not having a bassist at the time. Though the album still retains the black metal elements of early Opeth. The last time this is the case.

1. Prologue: Not much to say about this one. Though I like the drama it builds up towards April Ethereal.
2. April Ethereal: This one is more brutal than anything on the first two records imo. A lot of killer riffs. The riff at the 3:07 mark is probably the only part I find "Meh". Great song.
3. When: Can't decide whether April or this one is my favorite 8+ minute track here. Beautiful atmospheric intro. "This day wept on my shoulders" part and the solo over the same chord progression is one of my favorite Opeth moments. Love the acoustic part clocking in at 6 minutes, too. Lack of coherence is most visible on this track, which is my only gripe with it.
4. Madrigal: It will be getting a vote because it's too short, but I LOVE this one as an interlude. Beautiful.
5. The Amen Corner: My opinion of this one is similar to Night & Silent Water from the last album. Great first half, forgettable second half.
6. Demon of the Fall: The best song on the album and my favorite song in the first three albums. An impaccably crafted song. Amazing moving riffs to start off the song and accompany the verses, a phenomenal transition to the chorus with that killer acoustic riff (Also one of the my favorite Opeth moments) and the first moment of vocal brilliance in Mikael's career to close out the song.
7. Credence: The song suffers from early Mikael vocals. And his cold is very audible on this one, he sounds like he's singing with a clogged up nose. Instrumentally the song is very nice. The ending part that starts at 4 minutes in is a highlight.
8. Karma: This one is my least favorite track here. I think it's all over the place and doesn't really have anything that sticks with me.
9. Epilogue: Pretty much a tribute to David Gilmour this one, eh? Great way to close the record though, love the atmosphere.

My Arms, Your Hearse is the first Opeth album that I'd rank 5/5. Though it's more like 4,5/5 if you use halves. The first straight up 5/5 is the next one.
 
Haven't had the time listen to the earlier stuff. I'll try to vote in this round but I'm still not sure if I'll make it. I'll definitely be voting when Still Life enters the game though!
O great, more early Opeth opposition. As if there wasn't enough already.
 
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