Official Football Thread

Onhell said:
Seriously? why are people complaining that the WORLD cup is going around the world to places it has never been hosted in before?
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What I think a lot of people are critical of FIFA and the way they select the countriues is that they should make clear of their intentions before accepting bids. It would help before countries spend a lot of money in tabling a bid only for it to be rejected before it's submitted. I know FIFA has said that they will involve countries that have not hosted before but they should state that countries that have hosted in the past will get little chance of being selected again. As said by NA...

national acrobat said:
They never had any intention of awarding England the competition, even though they scored highest on the points assessment. If they'd been upfront two years ago, as it's clear suitability for holding the competition isn't a criterion - with it going to South Africa/Russia/Qatar, we could have saved the £15/20 million it cost to finance England's bid.
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Also, if this is FIFA's policy to move it around a bit more then they would have taken the Dutch/Belgium and the Australian bids a lot more seriously than they did.
 
No one commented on the fact that Westerlo have 6 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats?  ;) Belgian Team Of The Beast 2010/2011!

And when regarding the ongoing World Cup 2018/2022 debate: Albie, you're dead on. If spreading the game to new places is the goal, then England and USA (who have both hosted the World Cup before) should be made aware of that before they took on the effort to make a bid.

And the fact that the Qataris have a lot of oil money to spend on building 12 posh stadiums: Does this make it the right choice? I assume all countries that make a bid can actually afford to build the necessary facilities. I doubt anyone will have worse conditions for the construction workers than Qatar, though.

Norway also has a lot of oil money. I wouldn't feel very happy if we proposed a World Cup bid where we would use underpaid Polish builders to build 10 brand new stadiums - that after a world cup would never more be more than 1/3 full.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
No one commented on the fact that Westerlo have 6 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats?  ;) Belgian Team Of The Beast 2010/2011!
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I looked at the link and couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Now I do!

I can't bring myself to talk about the World Cup anymore.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
No one commented on the fact that Westerlo have 6 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats?  ;) Belgian Team Of The Beast 2010/2011!

And when regarding the ongoing World Cup 2018/2022 debate: Albie, you're dead on. If spreading the game to new places is the goal, then England and USA (who have both hosted the World Cup before) should be made aware of that before they took on the effort to make a bid.

And the fact that the Qataris have a lot of oil money to spend on building 12 posh stadiums: Does this make it the right choice? I assume all countries that make a bid can actually afford to build the necessary facilities. I doubt anyone will have worse conditions for the construction workers than Qatar, though.

Norway also has a lot of oil money. I wouldn't feel very happy if we proposed a World Cup bid where we would use underpaid Polish builders to build 10 brand new stadiums - that after a world cup would never more be more than 1/3 full.
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At least they have the funds to spend on them! The Latin American Countries AND South Africa aren't exactly SWIMMING in money and somehow Mexico has hosted the cup TWICE (sure it's been 30-40 years), so MONEY isn't everything, but it helps. I'm just glad over the DIVERSITY. I do agree with you and Ablie as far as FIFA's way of going about it sucks, but hey, what can you do?
 
Well, if the fact that they're shitting money is important, the World Cup should stay in the Middle East for a long time ...

I think the entire Qatar thing will be a gigantic show-off from a country which is such a nobody in football that they'll actually have to buy themselves a national team to make sure they're somewhat better than Wycombe Wanderers.
 
Again... it's NOT everything, but it helps. Russia isn't exactly "rich." Unless the Mob is helping to pay the bill.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
No one commented on the fact that Westerlo have 6 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats?  ;) Belgian Team Of The Beast 2010/2011!

And when regarding the ongoing World Cup 2018/2022 debate: Albie, you're dead on. If spreading the game to new places is the goal, then England and USA (who have both hosted the World Cup before) should be made aware of that before they took on the effort to make a bid.

And the fact that the Qataris have a lot of oil money to spend on building 12 posh stadiums: Does this make it the right choice? I assume all countries that make a bid can actually afford to build the necessary facilities. I doubt anyone will have worse conditions for the construction workers than Qatar, though.

Norway also has a lot of oil money. I wouldn't feel very happy if we proposed a World Cup bid where we would use underpaid Polish builders to build 10 brand new stadiums - that after a world cup would never more be more than 1/3 full.
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Hey, those Polish workers are there presumably because the pay if better than in Poland.  As for Qatar hosting WC 2022, I can see it because FIFA's stated goal is to promote the game everywhere and as long as they fill the seats, and they will anywhere, they're pleased.  Having said that, I completely sympathize with Albie and Nush, FIFA should have clear objectives so people don't waste money or get their hopes up.
Eddies Wingman said:
I think the entire Qatar thing will be a gigantic show-off from a country which is such a nobody in football that they'll actually have to buy themselves a national team to make sure they're somewhat better than Wycombe Wanderers.
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You have a point there!  They're definitely near the very bottom and will undoubtedly be the worst performing hosting team in WC history.  Unless... the refs are, ahem, "convinced" otherwise. 
 
Genghis Khan said:
Hey, those Polish workers are there presumably because the pay if better than in Poland.  
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Of course. The Polish have come here for work since the 80s, and I admire many of them for their excellent working morale - they can teach many Norwegians a little about that. I think we have become spoiled and lazy since we found oil in the North Sea.

My point in mentioning them was - in Norway, and I presume in most Western countries, there are laws that ensure that foreign workers shall have good working conditions and a decent paycheck - and employers who do not go by the laws, are punished with heavy fines. Is that true for the Indian, Pakistani etc. workers in the Gulf? My impression from a short visit in Qatar was that the foreign workers felt slightly above stray dogs in social status.

Of course, just as for the Poles in Norway, the Asians in Qatar, Bahrain and the Emirates are there because they can earn more than they can back home - and probably enough to ensure their children have a proper education and anything else they might need. But they work under really lousy conditions, many of them.

Now and then, there are news about employers who exploit East European workers, here in Norway. It provokes me, because I expect (and most Norwegians expect) that foreign workers are given good living and working conditions while they're here. I would be ashamed if we built a World Cup bid on cheap labour without making sure every single builder was provided for in a decent manner. That's what I'm afraid a Qatar WC will be.

The positive things about choosing Qatar are, as I see it:

  • The tournament is hosted by somebody who don't have to compromise on their healthcare system, their educational system and so on to have money to invest in the World Cup facilities.
  • Holding a tournament in the Middle East might work as a bridge-builder (culturally) between the ME and the west. That's needed in a time where those bridges are more often being demolished than built.
  • Possibly there will be sown some real interest for football down there as well, more than it being just a way of showing off their wealth by buying into European top clubs or building a national team from people who are paid to immigrate
 
Great post EW. I fear the same. My brother worked for a month in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates, a country very close to Qatar) and he told me that the immigrant workers from Pakistan etc. were treated like slaves. Of course that may sound exaggerated but you get an idea of the working conditions.
 
I don't know much about the political situation in Qatar, but my educated guess is that it is an absolute monarchy where only those connected to the royalty have any freedom.  Anything built in Qatar, WC or not, will be under the dictates of the ruling elite.
 
Well, my impression of Qatar is more like this:

It is an absolute monarchy, where the Emir holds the power. Most people in important positions are either family members or friends. But the Qatari population are generally quite satisfied, I haven't heard much about political opposition. Not because it is suppressed, but because there isn't a real drive for it. The Qataris are wealthy and have a good welfare system. So only those connected to the royalty have any real influence, but the Qatari people is quite free.

The same can not be said about the foreign workers, though.

But to put this thread back on track: Tomorrow morning (feckin' early) I go to England with three mates. We're primarily going for the Man Utd vs Arsenal match on Monday, but we intend to catch the non-league match between FC United of Manchester and Halifax Town tomorrow as well as Bolton vs Blackburn on sunday.

The rest of the time we'll most probably spend in various Manchester pubs  :D
 
Good luck! QPR belong in the top flight. (At least in my head - it's probably because they were there when I started to follow English football).

Some students invited me to a party tonight. My plane leaves at 06:10 tomorrow. I might very well end up as the most tired man on Gigg Lane tomorrow.
 
Forostar said:
Great post EW. I fear the same. My brother worked for a month in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates, a country very close to Qatar) and he told me that the immigrant workers from Pakistan etc. were treated like slaves. Of course that may sound exaggerated but you get an idea of the working conditions.
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Not exaggerated at all. Slaves in ancient Rome or Greece were treated much better. If I'm not wrong, the founder of Stoic philosophy school was an ex slave, so you get the idea.

They have one leave each 2 years for their country, they work for less than 150 Euros per month, they live by 6 in a small room, where the security of the accommodation does often raids and search their personal stuff. Their are not allowed to drink or make noise in these accommodations. They have to wait some 30' to get their food in the queue. They are transported to work with some buses. For saving money, the companies accommodate them in the Emirate of Sharjah, 1-2 hours by car to the usual destinations like Jebel Ali, Dubai & Abu Dhabi. So, make the calculation: 3 hours transport +12 hours work + 1 hours queue for eating. They have 8 hours total free time, which they spend between sleep & misery. They live in fear all the time, they can loose their work and sent back to India for nothing.

In Ramadan, if you are caught to drink or eat or smoke during the day, you have to pay some 500 Euros or going 3 months in jail. For who do you think they made this law, for the Westerns? Who is coming here and don't have 500 Euros to avoid jail? On the other hand, the Indians, do not have to pay these 500 Euros. They need to work 3 months for these money. They don't have these money. They live with 40 Euros per month. All the other salary goes to India via Western Union
 
My brother said that those workers were constantly smiling, but it felt more like a (friendly) habit (maybe to receive something) than like having real fun.
 
We (Galatasaray) lost again damn. It was our last match in Ali Sami Yen. We built a new stadium and we will play our matches there. Our historical stadium will be destroyed and we lost our last game in it. Another terrible display another terrible result. The opponent was Gençlerbirliği they were 15th in the league and we lost 2-0. We wasted time on the last minutes of the game. Now we're 12th in the league.

Shame.
 
Holy crap, I am so tired. But what a great weekend.

After arriving in Manchester about 12 on Saturday we had planned to go see FC United vs Halifax, but one of the others had had his luggage delayed and we spent quite some time sorting that out, so we didn't have time. Instead we found a pub in central Manchester and watched Saturday's Premier League matches.

Sunday, we had a good and solid hotel breakfast before taking the train out to Horwich, to watch Bolton Wanderers vs Blackburn Rovers, a nice little Lancashire derby there. The away fans were very vocal, and very keen to point out that the Bolton fans were not. Chants of "Shit support, Bolton, shit support" and "Empty seats Bolton, empty seats" were heard frequently  :D The first half of the match was quite dull, the second half was fireworks (and finally the home fans woke up as well). First Bolton had a man sent off with a second yellow card, then as Blackburn were tightening the grip Bolton took the lead. Five minutes before full time, Blackburn finally found a hole in the Bolton defense and got the equalizer. Three away fans stormed the pitch and were firmly escorted out of the ground by security  :D Within thirty seconds after play was restarted, Bolton took the lead again, with a direct attack that Blackburn would have been proud of themselves. This time Bolton managed to hold on to the lead to clinch a deserved 2-1 win.

After the match we found ourselves a Brazilian grill restaurant in Manchester and had a great meal. Those Brazilians know their meat!

Monday was of course all about the match at Old Trafford. We went out to the stadium quite early, around 4 PM, and warmed up with beer and singing in a pub near the stadium. While in the pub, we heard that Blackburn had sacked Sam Allardyce ... we agreed it was a strange decision. Then we entered Old Trafford, and the atmosphere inside was quite good - as it usually is with a late kickoff against good opposition  :D The match turned out to be a little disappointing, in that Arsenal were really dire, and United seemed satisfied with neutralizing them, the attacking play didn't really flow well.  Fortunately the Arsenal defense gave away some space for Ji-Sung Park to exploit right before half-time to make it 1-0 to United. The second half saw two major things happen; Arsenal got their only really big opportunity during the match, cleared off the line by Nemanja Vidic, and Wayne Rooney missed the penalty that would have given United 2-0. All in all a match where the result was the most positive thing.

After the match we had some more beers to celebrate - and yesterday, when we returned to Norway, I paid the price. Having a nasty hangover is not nice when flying.
 
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