No Prayer for the Dying

I personally enjoy all of Maiden's "black sheep" albums.  I think, for me at least, it's easier to appreciate albums like NPFTD and FOTD because Maiden progressed forward from there, and didn't stick with that raw sound and sort of continued where they left off with Seventh Son, especially once Bruce came back.  So, instead of people listening to 6 or so albums of raw, non progressive Maiden, we only had 2 or so albums like that, the rest moving back to older progressive formulas.  In this way, when listening to NPFTD I don't think "man, I wish this sounded more like seventh son" because they've gone back and done that also.  Run Silent Run Deep and Mother Russia are my two faves from that album.  Mother Russia is criminally underrated, IMO.
 
johnglen said:
I like public enema number 1 , mostly for the music , but some of the social commentary in these 2 albums is dreadful. For example i loathe the lyrics of "afraid to shoot strangers" , such a right-wing pro-Bush song .

Not so sure about that - seems more of a pragmatic statement about war rather than a kneejerk, idealistic, anti-war rant about all armed conflict.

Clearly the first part of the song outlines the horrors of war, but the latter part essentially asks what the alternative is? For example 'Should we live and let live?' - just turn a blind eye and let the aggressor get on with it?

No, because the lyrics ask: "But how can we let them go on this way? The reign of terror corruption must end."

Thus: "And we know deep down there's no other way. No trust, no reasoning, no more to say."

In essence, therefore, you can't debate rationally with a tyrant (like Hitler, say), so the bottom line is that armed force must be used.

Thus I don't see how the song can necessarily be characterised as right-wing. I think some people have construed it as being specificallly about the Gulf War - ie following Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 - but I'm not so sure about that.

Songs like.... "Weekend Warrior" have embarassing lyrics, that's not serious social commentary , IMO just childish rumblings.

Well I don't know, it's neither pro-violence nor another kneejerk response against violence.

There are several interesting angles;

- the normal life during the week and he more sinister side at weekends;
- the behaviour in the normal environment and the completely different attitude in the enviroment of the terraces/football match.
- questioning how the person got involved in it all in the first place.
- the difficulty of escaping from it all, even when the person knows it's wrong.

Thus essentially it's about how peer pressure and certain enviroments affect our behaviour, and how we may think it's wrong but can't find a way out of it.

In fact there's perhaps a parallel with ATSS, because deep down the narrator knows that violence may be morally right in the just war scenario, but morally wrong in the football hooliganism environment, but being morally honest about it is perhaps more difficult. In the just war scenario it's perhaps difficult to admit that it may be just and the only alternative if you inhabit a certain political environment , while in the latter it's difficult to tell your mates that something's wrong and you think you should be doing something else.

OK, neither the song nor my analysis offers any particularly devastating insights, but at the end of the day it's a rock song, not a sociology thesis. But surely a bit better than "childish rumblings"? Although perhaps the music is a different matter!
 
The Eclectic said:
Thus essentially it's about how peer pressure and certain enviroments affect our behaviour, and how we may think it's wrong but can't find a way out of it.

This and maybe more.
To me, on the deeper level it's about maturity — the need to leave schoolyard codes and behaviours behind.
I'm sure many of you had/have friends who never got past the pack mentality of the team, or the gang — the ones with a stunted sense of pride or honour that finds answers in violence.
Too many 20-somethings ruin lives — their own, the other guy's, or the families of both — through acts of violence and a lack of understanding of their adult consequences.
I've watched court cases where the accused and their peers excuse assaults and even deaths with "I'm/he's not really a bad guy," "It was just a fight," or "the other guy had it coming."
These are real tragedies, wastes of human potential.
Sure, the words of Weekend Warrior themselves may not be of the most poetic nature, but do you really think poetry is the best way to reach the type of guy this song is trying to speak to?
Simple, sure. But I find nothing childish about this lyric at all.
 
Interesting ranking of the Maiden albums by the thread starter. I agree with him on Dance of Death, togeher with Virtual, those two are my least favourite Maiden albums.

I like No Prayer...Maiden tried something different in the 90s, the whole 80s music scene had also changed so much back then, and many bands had to look for a new identity and image. I like the stripped down, back to basics approach they did. Back to leather jackets and jeans. Back to stacks of amps and a backdrop on stage. No grandiose, over the top stageshows like on the previous three tours.

Musically they might have been a little less inspired, but there is some strong material on this album. Public Enema Number 1, Run Silent Run Deep, Mother Russia, The titletrack....All good songs. To me, some of the stuff on No Prayer would not have sounded out of place on Seventh Son, if you imagine the production being different. And they didn't cross into fulltime hard rock until they made Fear of The Dark album. 
 
we alrady got history tour to support Live After Death with great setlist and stage, I hope there will be another history tour to support Maiden England with songs band played back in 86+88 tours, I wish that we will get the history tour of 90s songs, I would like to see these songs

No Prayer For The Dying:
Tailgunner
No Prayer For The Dying
Bring Your Daughter... To The Slaughter...
Hooks In You

Fear Of The Dark:
Be Quick Or Be Dead
Afraid To Shoot Strangers
Wasting Love
Fear Of The Dark

The X Factor:
Man On The Edge
Sign Of The Cross
Lord Of The Flies
The Edge Of Darkness

Virtual XI:
Futureal
The Clansman
Lightnig Strikes Twice

stage - mix of Fear Of The Dark Tour + Virual XI
big eddie - eddie From The X Factour
walking eddie - eddie from Fear Of Dark tour or from No Prayer On The Road

this could be great tour raw and dark tour "No Prayer For Dark Factor XI" the opposite of Somewhere Back In Time
 
I see some really excellent contributions appeared in this topic. Thanks guys! Great read.  :ok:

@chaosapiant: That's how I see it as well. These albums may not present my very top favourite sound/style of Maiden, but when I see things in perspective, I find that they bring interesting variety in the catalogue, and have strong characteristics of their own. And I don't mind Bruce's rougher sound, since it fits to the music which is rougher and at times less melodic as well.

I agree that Mother Russia is criminally underrated. At various moments in its music I hear the echo of the title track of the previous album, stylewise. At the same time I like the lyrics. The line "Can you be happy now you're people are free" is dead on, and 20 years later, we can still ask this.
 
thomason said:
we alrady got history tour to support Live After Death with great setlist and stage, I hope there will be another history tour to support Maiden England with songs band played back in 86+88 tours, I wish that we will get the history tour of 90s songs, I would like to see these songs

No Prayer For The Dying:
Tailgunner
No Prayer For The Dying
Bring Your Daughter... To The Slaughter...
Hooks In You

Fear Of The Dark:
Be Quick Or Be Dead
Afraid To Shoot Strangers
Wasting Love
Fear Of The Dark

The X Factor:
Man On The Edge
Sign Of The Cross
Lord Of The Flies
The Edge Of Darkness

Virtual XI:
Futureal
The Clansman
Lightnig Strikes Twice

stage - mix of Fear Of The Dark Tour + Virual XI
big eddie - eddie From The X Factour
walking eddie - eddie from Fear Of Dark tour or from No Prayer On The Road

this could be great tour raw and dark tour "No Prayer For Dark Factor XI" the opposite of Somewhere Back In Time

I'd go see it but it'll never happen. I'd much rather a repeat of the SBIT tour to this and  "No Prayer For Dark Factor XI" is the worst name for a tour EVER ;)
 
My theory to why some so called fans bash Janick is because his first album was No Prayers, which was the weakest Maiden album so far after a very strong run of real good classic albums, so unfairly they see it as Janick's fault for Maiden's decline in the 1990's which is just not true, and without Gers I suspect Maiden would have collapsed, he injected new energy into the band, if Janick had first appeared on Seventh Son he would be thought of much more highly, I am not a Janick lover and prefer Smith but I think fans are really unfair towards him.

No Prayers is a rubbish album because it was recorded in Steve Harris barn, and because of the internal political problems of that time it was released in its demo form because the band never made it to the studio to record it correctly!!
Rotam said:
The biggest mistery of this album is on the credits.

"Thanks for SweetPea for putting up with Nicko", or something like that.

Why was the funniest member of Maiden sad ? because of H ? it is something related with the album ?  Who or what is Sweetpea ? :uhm:

You have to realize that like H, the guys feel a little tired of constant touring, and if i'm not mistaken, except for Steve, each of them were starting to grow their own families. Probably their minds were on a different direction. Much more relaxed.

Actually, i believe NPFTD was the 2nd album i bought, the first being Killers (mid 1990's). So, i began from their "worst". That's probably why i like this album.

Nicko's Partner
thomason said:
I really like NPFTD band should play songs like Tailguner, No Prayer For The Dying more often live  :shred: I would like to hear these songs in three guitar attack :shred:

Tailgunner was a great live opener, although Dave couldn't get the solo right and just played the Moonchild one :D, listen to the live version again (B side of Wasted Love or Fear Of The Dark Live)
 
The Eclectic said:
Not so sure about that - seems more of a pragmatic statement about war rather than a kneejerk, idealistic, anti-war rant about all armed conflict.

Clearly the first part of the song outlines the horrors of war, but the latter part essentially asks what the alternative is? For example 'Should we live and let live?' - just turn a blind eye and let the aggressor get on with it?

No, because the lyrics ask: "But how can we let them go on this way? The reign of terror corruption must end."

Thus: "And we know deep down there's no other way. No trust, no reasoning, no more to say."

In essence, therefore, you can't debate rationally with a tyrant (like Hitler, say), so the bottom line is that armed force must be used.

Thus I don't see how the song can necessarily be characterised as right-wing. I think some people have construed it as being specificallly about the Gulf War - ie following Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 - but I'm not so sure about that.

Well I don't know, it's neither pro-violence nor another kneejerk response against violence.

There are several interesting angles;

- the normal life during the week and he more sinister side at weekends;
- the behaviour in the normal environment and the completely different attitude in the enviroment of the terraces/football match.
- questioning how the person got involved in it all in the first place.
- the difficulty of escaping from it all, even when the person knows it's wrong.

Thus essentially it's about how peer pressure and certain enviroments affect our behaviour, and how we may think it's wrong but can't find a way out of it.

In fact there's perhaps a parallel with ATSS, because deep down the narrator knows that violence may be morally right in the just war scenario, but morally wrong in the football hooliganism environment, but being morally honest about it is perhaps more difficult. In the just war scenario it's perhaps difficult to admit that it may be just and the only alternative if you inhabit a certain political environment , while in the latter it's difficult to tell your mates that something's wrong and you think you should be doing something else.

OK, neither the song nor my analysis offers any particularly devastating insights, but at the end of the day it's a rock song, not a sociology thesis. But surely a bit better than "childish rumblings"? Although perhaps the music is a different matter!
Sorry, but i didn't consider Sadam to be Hitler and the alied forces in Iraq to be the equals to the alied forces in WWII
 
mckindog said:
To me, on the deeper level it's about maturity — the need to leave schoolyard codes and behaviours behind.
I'm sure many of you had/have friends who never got past the pack mentality of the team, or the gang — the ones with a stunted sense of pride or honour that finds answers in violence.

Indeed, and of course it afflicts a whole range of life issues other than just those addressed in the song.

Music is another interesting one. When I was a teenager - about thirty years ago now  :blush: - I was into punk, while one of my mates was buying Maiden and Judas Priest albums. And we were both stuck within the confines of punk and metal respectively - and would slag the other - although a few years later we had both broadened our tastes a bit because we had left the more blinkered attitude behind. I mean, how many of us have secretly liked a band or a type of music but wouldn't admit it to anyone? Or perhaps even admit it to ourselves?

Within your particular peer group you just want to fit in, and the fear of ridicule is too great.

Of course, it also operates at many different levels. For example, you're with your fellow Maiden fans who're slagging off NPFTD or the Blaze era, or whatever, but you secretly don't think they're that bad but just don't want to admit it.

So instead you come onto the internet, adopt a pseudonym and start threads like this  ;)

Thankfully it seems to become easier to think outside the pack with increasing age, but of course it's not the same for everyone. Look at politicians, for example.
johnglen said:
Sorry, but i didn't consider Sadam to be Hitler and the alied forces in Iraq to be the equals to the alied forces in WWII

So you're sure the song is all about Saddam Hussein and couldn't be applied to war in general, in which case we could perhaps all interpret the lyrics in our own way and thus perhaps all like the message in he song, since after all even you seem to concede that fighting Hitler was a just war?

And as regards Hitler in particular, where do you draw the line between the likes of him and Saddam Hussein?
 
I'm listing to the album while doing my math homework right now, and it might not be the best musical album by Maiden but it is a really fun album to listen to and I'm having a great time jamming out to all the songs. Currently on Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter.
 
The Eclectic said:
So instead you come onto the internet, adopt a pseudonym and start threads like this  ;)

Hello, my name is John and I really like Virtual XI... :innocent:
 
I always said I liked NDFTD, just that I liked other albums better.
But I'm a little surprised how poorly it actually stacks up for me when I rank individual Maiden songs.
I jumped ahead a little on the daily song thread and have now finished adding this album to my rankings.
Of the first seven albums (72 songs), eight No Prayer's songs are in the bottom third — 23, 30, 50, 53, 56, 57, 64, 69, 70 and 71.
 
I'm a big fan of No Prayer. Although it doesn't have any truly brilliant songs, I think it has 2 or 3 that are knocking on the door of greatness; all the others are pretty good. I think it has less filler and tripe than Fear of the Dark does.

I really like Bruce's performances on this one. Looking past the raspy bits, he seriously sings the hell out of most of these songs, the highlights being No Prayer for the Dying, Run Silent... and Mother Russia.
 
maidenpriest said:
No Prayers is a rubbish album because it was recorded in Steve Harris barn, and because of the internal political problems of that time it was released in its demo form because the band never made it to the studio to record it correctly!!

I think you've mistaken No Prayer for Virtual XI.
 
Not their best, but there is a lot of great songs on this album. It was the first Maiden album I bought, so it has a very special place in my heart.
Reminds me of the attitude they got on their first albums. Fast rocking uptempo rock n roll songs. I hope the next album will bring back some of that aggression, and energy.
 
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