Nightwish

You mean ICS Vortex from Borknagar and Dimmu Borgir? Wouldn't be the worst fit but he can do better than being a backup singer in Nightwish.

Cool thing is that he growls too, so it'd be a welcome addition if Tuomas let him do it.
 
Night Prowler said:
You mean ICS Vortex from Borknagar and Dimmu Borgir? Wouldn't be the worst fit but he can do better than being a backup singer in Nightwish.

Cool thing is that he growls too, so it'd be a welcome addition if Tuomas let him do it.
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it would be the biggest thing hes done in his career if he joins nightwish. Have you seen the venues they play?
 
I've been re-listening through all of the albums in reverse and it struck me as I started Once just how much simpler the music was in the pre-Floor days. In no way am I saying the music was better or worse, just that it followed more traditional pop and rock structures and left large openings for vocal melodies (even in heavier songs).

As soon as Floor joined (and especially on Human. :: | :: Nature.) the vocal melodies are so incredibly complicated that they are not immediately catchy in any way. I'm sure part of this is due to Tuomas' growing interest in orchestral music, his blossoming confidence in his own writing and playing, and the new opportunity to utilize a vocalist with as many different tones and styles as Floor.

Just curious if anyone else has noticed this and what you think? Personally, I find it unfortunate that Tuomas found his most powerful singer ever in Floor and also chose that moment to begin writing far more orchestral, less vocal-based music. That said, I also wonder if Floor would have been wasted on simpler material.
 
I can only say (probably repeat) that most songs and also the vocal melodies have not reached the level of pre-Floor material.

Floor shines imo in music where she can do operatic music but also in powerful stuff and tender calm, "pretty" (ballad) parts. She was in After Forever which also had orchestral ingredients and that music was definitely not simpler. On the contrary. It is hard to say what happened.
I think the Nightwish music is just not that appealing anymore. And it is not possible to have appealing vocal lines over not very catchy/strong music.
 
Forostar said:
Floor shines imo in music where she can do operatic music but also in powerful stuff and tender calm, "pretty" (ballad) parts. She was in After Forever which also had orchestral ingredients and that music was definitely not simpler. On the contrary. It is hard to say what happened.
I think the Nightwish music is just not that appealing anymore. And it is not possible to have appealing vocal lines over not very catchy/strong music.
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I very much agree with the first half of your statement, but the second half is pure opinion.

I think maybe the music has just gotten more complicated and Tuomas hasn’t quite figured out how vocals fit in his new musical vision. Either that, or he truly doesn’t care about catchiness and just uses the vocal as a purely symphonic instrument. Both are possible.

I don’t find the new songs to have unappealing music, but definitely some of the weaker vocal melodies/lyrics of the band’s career. It’s a shame it had to happen with their best singer.

All of this said, I still think both Floor albums are more cohesive than most of the Tarja albums.
 
I actually think I like Floor’s voice best with Nightwish. Her work in After Forever is fine, but I’m not the biggest fan of her anyway (while admitting she’s probably one of the most talented singers out there, just not really to personal taste, yknow?). Going operatic is fine as one-off moments like in “Shoemaker”, but I’m much more interested in her belt-y style, which I think Tuomas allowed her to hit more in H/N. Will be interesting to see what she’ll do next album.
 
I think Floor is immensely talented, and she killed it when I saw her live with Nightwish a few years ago. But there's no denying that outside of the debut, Nightwish's weakest material is the Floor-era albums. Endless Forms is easily the stronger of the two, and while Human blah blah Nature isn't necessarily bad, it just doesn't compare to the previous albums. Yes, that includes the Anette albums - which I happen to love.

It's difficult for me to rank most of the band's Tarja and Anette albums, since aside from the debut I really do like most of the material on each. They started as a power metal band with folky elements and have kept many of those elements but strayed away from the power metal in favor of overly dramatic orchestral bombast. That's fine - but it's reached a point where they're no longer even a metal band. The guitar is a backing instrument, and the songs are 50-75% keyboard/orchestral arrangements now. Again, that's fine - but they're practically a different band at this point. It reminds me of Opeth - both where the band's best material is in the middle of their discography and the bookends are fine (but much weaker in comparison), and that their style has changed so drastically that they should really be going by a different name.
 
I dunno, it sounds metal to me. Nightwish have used the guitar about the same way since Dark Passion Play — for effect to really nail in the bombast.
 
Diesel 11 said:
I dunno, it sounds metal to me. Nightwish have used the guitar about the same way since Dark Passion Play — for effect to really nail in the bombast.
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Which I don't mind (occasionally), but I'm struggling to remember any real riffs they've had since the Tarja days.

Jer said:
Oceanborn or bust, baby. (Well, bust I guess, if the GMAC is any indication...)
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It was up against Maiden, right? May as well have been invalid.
 
I can't say I feel the same as Knicks - especially for most of the Tarja era albums. Yes, they started with a certain formula on Once that holds to this day (or, more precisely Endless Forms), but the albums before I find much more innovative and intriguing. You don't hear them doing something like Wanderlust, nowadays. And even then, the Anette-era to me was a pinnacle of this "formulaic" approach - what they did, they did great, still kept the regurgitation of ideas on an acceptable level + were experimental in ways that did not put me off (most of Imaginaerum, including Slow, Love, Slow etc.)

With Floor... they don't suck and I actually can enjoy EFMB (and I'm gonna have to give H:N another chance, one of these days), but it's either a repetition of the formula, now including more and more previous riffs and ideas and the rest gets lost in ambience and bloat. And Song of Myself was the furthest I was willing to go as far as Tuomas' self-indulgence is concerned and he ovedid that many times over just on the last two albums alone.

And, actually, Oceanborn might be my favourite, or at least really high in my ranking. Yes, Tarja as an opera singer is not as good as Floor as a "classically influenced" singer (meaning Tarja is just a good opera singer, Floor as a "non-opera" singer is fantastic), but without her, some of the magic and wonder was definitely lost.

But on the other hand - let's be realistic - they never were really musically complex or untrivial, in the way Epica often are.
 
The melodies were brilliant and so were the vocals. The blend of these melodies with the colour of that excellent fitting voice of Tarja, and of course Tuomas sounds were the essence. If one is out of strong melodies a dull piece is not going to be that exciting with a great singer, whoever it is.

Bad films with good actors can still be enjoyed if you like the actor a lot (if you focus especially on their performance) but in music, that does not work like that. At least for me. The base is the music. In a musical piece, that music needs to be enjoyed, it is integral, essential.

I am open for change in style of music, but if it does not grab me (for a variety of reasons), then I can't say it is as good.
 
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''The Toolmaker'' (Part III from ''The Greatest Show On Earth'') is a great song.

I wished it was a separate song.... (it is in a way, I guess).
 
So, the session bassist is Jukka Koskinen from Wintersun, which is also Kai Hahto's other band.

The Evening in a Virtual World has been quite good so far! About halfway through the set now. Obviously Marko is missed in the vocal harmonies, let alone some lead vocals, but Floor definitely pulled off Marko's parts in
Planet Hell
very well... :)

And the visual concept looks actually... quite awesome!

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