It's a terrible, terrible album that Nightwish should be embarrassed to have released. The fact that they aren't is worrying for the future of the band.
NIGHTWISH ALBUM RANKING GAME: #5 REVEALED
- Thread starter Mosh
- Start date
It was a reasonably successful album right? I think it sold well and in the mainstream press I've mostly only seen positive reviews. They also toured it pretty extensively. It seems to me like the Floor era has taken them to new levels of popularity, at least in the USA. I think there is a really good chance they go all in on that album's direction and that becomes the standard for Nightwish as it is clearly working for them.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I think a lot of it also has to do with many of their modern fans not first getting into albums like Oceanborn or Wishmaster, let alone Once or Dark Passion Play. A lot of the younger fans came onboard during and for the Floor era, so they’re more into the artsy-fartsy new concepts and not down for the rocket blasting that they did back in the day. It really blows my mind as someone who every album from Nightwish to see the old fans complain about the new stuff and the new fans write off the old stuff. Nightwish didn’t get to their modern form overnight, it was a gradual process, but if you toggle between Oceanborn and H/N it’s shocking how different they sound. They appeal to different audiences for different reasons.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
I agree with this from the musical point of view - even nowadays, in hindsight the biggest jump was inarguably between Century Child and Once (I still recall the complaints about the "Evanescentisation" of the band back in the day); everywhere else the transition's been rather smooth and foreshadowed - but I strenuously declare that the shift in lyrics, image, concepts in the Floor era has been very jarring and the discontinuity is certainly present, almost palpable there.
Which isn't helped by the fact they've been bleeding bandmembers as well. You might probably still call it gradual (since they release an album only every five years or so), but as someone who genuinely loves the Anette era as well (and even welcomed Floor and was kinda hyped about EFMB at first), I insist the band isn't the same band anymore, in fact it's not even a band anymore, as with Emppu giving off the burnt-out vibes for some time now, it's mostly "Tuomas & his hired guns", honestly.
All the good to you if you like the product, really, I respect that, but I find your bafflement at the older fans' bafflement rather weird; even liking the new era, you must know what we're talking about.
I personally deeply love the reunion era of Maiden - it's my favourite era, definitely - I could imagine keeping everything in their discography since 1999 and burning all the rest for evermore... but I can definitely see where some of the older fans get lost, with all the acoustic intros, every song being ten minutes, the X-factorish dourness, Bruce's shift in vocals and so on. And that's a band that still has all the iconic members and whose image hasn't shifted all that drastically since the 90s (the X Factor to be precise).
It's a pretty common thing in Metal these days imo, you can see a similar phenomenon with bands like Leprous, Gojira, and Symphony X. Some of these bands weren't touring much early on and the early albums aren't widely known/available, but have picked up in popularity significantly in the last decade with a legion of new fans who, understandably, skew more toward liking the new material.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I agree as far as image goes, the sudden deep dive into science was a bit out of left-field, but at the same time when you've got songs like "A Return to the Sea", "Lappi", "Last of the Wilds", etc in your discography, it doesn't seem quite as extreme to go down this route lyrically. But I can concede that not having been a fan during the shift might mean my perception is colored by hindsight.
No I 100% agree with this. This is why I'm currently having mixed feelings going into Yesterwynde. I was in high school when Human. :||: Nature. dropped, and it was during the pandemic when I got really into biking, so all these artsy nature songs were perfect for me. Now I'm working retail and a lot more cynical about Tuomas and Troy waxing poetic about themselves. The band has definitely changed and I'm a bit pensive about just where they're headed. Maybe I just missed the disappointment everyone else has by an album or two, who knows?
Maybe I'm not good at explaining myself but my bafflement lies less in "I don't understand how you don't like modern Nightwish!" because of course the sound has changed and it's not for everyone, I get that. My bafflement lies in comments like LC's about how this is a "terrible, terrible album that Nightwish should be embarrassed to have released". This is where I really just don't get it. Nothing about this record is offensive unless you actually find the entire concept offensive. Musically this feels pretty inoffensive, which can also be its biggest weakness in a sense. Like, I just feel there's a difference between being bored by something and being repulsed by something. I'm baffled by the extreme repulsion on a musical level.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Yeah, but despite me being a neoclassical bloke by nature and despite me usually preferring prog to other things, I certainly see the difference in their new era since Paradise Lost (or the first half of Odyssey, since there's where the biggest shift happened) ... and, shameful as I am to admit it, there are moments I tend to prefer it myself.
(though I'd argue it's not the last decade - they hardly had an album in the last decade; it's more like the last two decades, but that's just their studio laziness
)
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
...also in not really getting why Human. :||: Nature. felt out of left field for so many people when to me it was a natural continuation. But this discussion has been really interesting and a little elucidating even if I don't 100% agree with everyone.
Yea last two decades in the case of Symphony X. The Odyssey was the first album they did significant touring for which gave them a little bit of a bump (thanks in no small part to high profile spots on the Megadeth and Dream Theater festivals). Generally though I think the last decade has seen a bit of a market expansion for Metal bands, particularly non-extreme ones. Maybe due to social media, maybe due to legacy bands slowly phasing out of festivals, maybe something else. But I do see a sort of "second wind" happening for a lot of bands like Nightwish that have actually been around for a fairly long time.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
(sorry for being personal below, skip it if necessary)
I don't mind either science or nature, in fact, I think I would rather love that (I am a huge fan of similar concepts with some Czech bands and I am a huge fan of ... say, Angra's Holy Land as well), it's the fact that Tuomas has suddenly decided to preach.
I'm sorry to put it this way, but I really can't say it otherwise. Sorry, sorry sorry.
Fake humility aside - I'm smarter than him, more well-read than him and admitting the fact I might not be here very long (I'm battling thoughts of death and memento moris nearly every day now) and trying to suffuse myself with 3000 years of philosophy, I might also even be a tad wiser than him (despite it probably not showing on this forum). That's not to aggrandise me, I'm definitely not a better person or anything (in fact, I'm rather terrible), but even I'm not as obnoxious with my preaching.
Thing is, fuck you, Holopainen, you have nothing. You have nothing to preach about. I don't care about your tuppence wisdom. Dawkins is so stupid, I have seen atheists distancing themselves from him, since they don't want to be counted in that society. Since I'm not 15, you won't awe me with your quotes of Dawkins (try Hitchens at least, you fucker).
You're a fucking MUSICIAN. ENTERTAIN ME. I didn't ask you to preach. To TELL ME THE TRUTH. Intentionally. Explicitly.
Sorry, I've been feeling somewhat unwell these past few days and I've been relistening to these last Nightwish albums and I'm just... dunno. Sorry for being so personal and honest. But he kinda pisses me off.
Okay, I might have understood that wrongly.
Yeah, I understand Loosey's sentiment in that regard as "bland is the worst offence". He feels they've become shallow (as I have, honestly) and that's more embarassing than doing some bollocks for fun. Dunno, maybe I misunderstood him.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Sorry for being so bitter above, I'm kinda wavering between deleting that and keeping it for the posterity, anyway, I wanted to say why I actually like, say, Arjen Lucassen and hate current-era Holopainen. I might look like a condescending cunt, but so does he, I guess we're even then.
I was willing to take the certain obnoxiousness of EFMB, including the certain musical regurgitation there, as a part of a fresh start, trying to open a new chapter, easing Floor in and so on.
Once H:N came out and it was even more pretentious, the music became in a way blander or drowned in failed experiments, Marco was just as non-present as on the last album and so on, it retrospectively kinda "jumped the shark" for me. Sometimes, those things explode within you in hindsight.
I was willing to take the certain obnoxiousness of EFMB, including the certain musical regurgitation there, as a part of a fresh start, trying to open a new chapter, easing Floor in and so on.
Once H:N came out and it was even more pretentious, the music became in a way blander or drowned in failed experiments, Marco was just as non-present as on the last album and so on, it retrospectively kinda "jumped the shark" for me. Sometimes, those things explode within you in hindsight.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Here's the thing - I think you and I actually agree with the exception that I still like the music. I like how Tuomas writes, pretentious or not, because it's interesting and I feel something. At the same time, I also feel like he doesn't really add anything new to a discussion, just manages to link it well with the music to create a neat little capsule that I like. Take "Tribal". I agree 100% with everything he writes in that song. At the same time, it's not like he really wrote anything higher than a high schooler would. So I can rock out to it just fine, but there's a part of me that's like, "Yes, I agree, but what more do you have to add to the discussion?" (I acknowledge that your take on "Tribal" is very distant from agreement but I think it's nought for us to discuss this further because we both know where each of us stands on religion.)
Again, I still like the music even if it doesn't go as deep as it could. But the rest of the band playing up their image is what makes me roll my eyes. Floor saying that every night is a night to remember, Troy calling everyone "beautiful, beautiful people", like shut the fuck up with that hippie bullshit. Tuomas is just as bad, if not worse - take this promo opening for instance:
...it's like, Jesus Christ dude, thanks for coming out of the cabin for the first time in a year, now could you touch some grass while you're out here?
I don't mind all this in the music. In fact, I think it's cool that Tuomas can write a song about music, about endlessness, sharing stories like Eugene Shoemaker's, etc. But the image they've built for themselves especially since Troy joined is just so fucking annoying.
Putting the following in spoilers cuz I don't wanna accidentally start something:
I like "Greatest Show on Earth", I like Dawkins's addition to it, I respected Dawkins's career in evolutionary science, but ever since he started pivoting towards using incomplete science to push transphobia the facade all came down. The revolutionary is now just the bitter old man shouting at clouds. Frankly I was half expecting Nightwish to drop a single about male and female biology but thankfully that has not occurred... yet.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Yeah, I'll rather put this in spoilers as well..
Let me just say that I find the fact that Dawkins is currently kinda being eaten alive with almost... religious vigour by the young, restless, progressive, irreligious lot that he has nourished in the past almost inappropriately delicious.
I suppose you can only be successful in being counter-culture and tearing down worldviews as long as you know which worldviews you can safely touch.
But that was already an unsafe sentence to utter.
I suppose you can only be successful in being counter-culture and tearing down worldviews as long as you know which worldviews you can safely touch.
But that was already an unsafe sentence to utter.
Anyway, back to topic, back to topic. Or, well, back to bed, it's already past midnight and I'm a wreck as is, currently.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Also,
This is absolutely magnificent and beautiful, I wish I could send this to his phone, I applaud thee
(seriously, this might have been the best, most amazing post I've seen on MaidenFans in several years)
This is absolutely magnificent and beautiful, I wish I could send this to his phone, I applaud thee
(seriously, this might have been the best, most amazing post I've seen on MaidenFans in several years)
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Should we kick the poor dying dog further or shall we move on to the next album, O Moshest of Moshes?
(I'm fine with both options, I feel like I've kinda underhated Harvest there)
(I'm fine with both options, I feel like I've kinda underhated Harvest there)
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7: Imaginaerum
8: Human :||: Nature
9: Angels Fall First
Highest score: 7 (@Iron Taipei @Confeos @Onhell)
Lowest score: 2 (@KiDDo @Azas)
Rounding out our bottom three and ensuring that all three Nightwish vocalists get a slot is the second and final Anette album: Imaginaerum. As alluded to earlier, this is the only album that did not land on first place or last place on any list. Obviously it got a few #3 placements and a couple #8 placements, but the vast majority of users placed it somewhere in the middle (usually around 5th or 6th). Unlike the Judas Priest game, where there were quite a few universally low ranking albums and a few undisputed top albums, it's pretty tight competition after the bottom two albums. The jump from Human to Imaginaerum is about 29 points. By comparison, there's only a jump of 12 points from Imaginaerum to the next album, and mostly smaller increments from one album to another after that. It's a smaller discography than Priest, but certainly a more consistent one, as most albums seem to rate highly on at least a few lists. The fact that the #7 album on this list is a top three album on a few individual lists (and rated just a bit below on several others) is high praise for Nightwish I would say.
Of the remaining seven albums, Imaginaerum feels the most "mid" to me. They're trying a lot of stuff on this album, but I wouldn't say most of the adventurous tracks on here are successful. When the album is at it's most Nightwish-y (Storytime, I Want My Tears Back, Last Ride of the Day), it's fantastic. The more experimental tracks and the ballads tend to be a bit forgettable to me though. I would say the most successful song that goes off the beaten path is Ghost River. Great track and an awesome vocal back and forth with Marko. There's a lot of adventure in this song and while it's kinda cheesy I actually think it's mostly a cool song with a great hook.
Speaking of cheese, am I the only one who feels like, even for a Nightwish album, this album is full of it? The fairy tale/fantasy lyrical themes are undoubtedly a better fit for the band than the trite on last few albums for sure, but some of the lyrics are just so goofy. I'm not sure what the general consensus is on Anette, I think she's fine but kinda overperforms these words. Tarja brought more of a swagger to the songs and Floor just has infinitely more conviction in everything she does. I can't help but feel Anette is reaching beyond her abilities on a lot of these songs, even though I don't have any problems with her voice (I think it's more of a mismatch with the band, I could see her nailing Devin Townsend's music for example). Overall though I'm not going to complain about the lyrics too much because there's at least a fun element there, which is completely missing from Human.
At least until you get to Song Of Myself, which we kinda discussed already as a sort of precursor to where the band would go on the next album and especially on Human. The first half of this song is actually very good. Just a classic Nightwish rocker with some twists and turns. But, man, that spoken word section to the end is just awful. Awful lyrics, bad performances, complete disconnect from the first half of the song. Like I said with Human, I don't like calling music pretentious but the pseudo-intellectual stuff on these songs is really tough to swallow. Nothing wrong with incorporating science, literature, or whatever else into your music, but actually incorporate it. Sticking a long spoken word section on to the end of an otherwise unrelated song just feels like a way to flaunt how well read you are (not). On the other hand, the title track is a much better executed orchestral track. It's not the most interesting thing ever, but capping off the album with an orchestral medley of the previous songs is a nice way to close things out. I just wish that the giant epic proceeding it wasn't so clunky.
Imaginaerum was the latest album when I first got into Nightwish, so I have a bit of a sentimental attachment to it, but I also think that, as a starting album, the band only got better from there when I started exploring their other work. It's hard to pinpoint what makes one Nightwish album work more than another because they have such a specific sound that they stick to. On this album, I think I just miss a few more of those huge anthemic songs in the realm of Last Ride of the Day/Storytime. It has too many ballads/slower songs. Something like Slow Love Slow should have never made it on a Nightwish album IMO. But I still find the album to be very enjoyable overall and a huge improvement over the bottom 2 on the list.
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7: Imaginaerum
8: Human :||: Nature
9: Angels Fall First
Highest score: 7 (@Iron Taipei @Confeos @Onhell)
Lowest score: 2 (@KiDDo @Azas)
Rounding out our bottom three and ensuring that all three Nightwish vocalists get a slot is the second and final Anette album: Imaginaerum. As alluded to earlier, this is the only album that did not land on first place or last place on any list. Obviously it got a few #3 placements and a couple #8 placements, but the vast majority of users placed it somewhere in the middle (usually around 5th or 6th). Unlike the Judas Priest game, where there were quite a few universally low ranking albums and a few undisputed top albums, it's pretty tight competition after the bottom two albums. The jump from Human to Imaginaerum is about 29 points. By comparison, there's only a jump of 12 points from Imaginaerum to the next album, and mostly smaller increments from one album to another after that. It's a smaller discography than Priest, but certainly a more consistent one, as most albums seem to rate highly on at least a few lists. The fact that the #7 album on this list is a top three album on a few individual lists (and rated just a bit below on several others) is high praise for Nightwish I would say.
Of the remaining seven albums, Imaginaerum feels the most "mid" to me. They're trying a lot of stuff on this album, but I wouldn't say most of the adventurous tracks on here are successful. When the album is at it's most Nightwish-y (Storytime, I Want My Tears Back, Last Ride of the Day), it's fantastic. The more experimental tracks and the ballads tend to be a bit forgettable to me though. I would say the most successful song that goes off the beaten path is Ghost River. Great track and an awesome vocal back and forth with Marko. There's a lot of adventure in this song and while it's kinda cheesy I actually think it's mostly a cool song with a great hook.
Speaking of cheese, am I the only one who feels like, even for a Nightwish album, this album is full of it? The fairy tale/fantasy lyrical themes are undoubtedly a better fit for the band than the trite on last few albums for sure, but some of the lyrics are just so goofy. I'm not sure what the general consensus is on Anette, I think she's fine but kinda overperforms these words. Tarja brought more of a swagger to the songs and Floor just has infinitely more conviction in everything she does. I can't help but feel Anette is reaching beyond her abilities on a lot of these songs, even though I don't have any problems with her voice (I think it's more of a mismatch with the band, I could see her nailing Devin Townsend's music for example). Overall though I'm not going to complain about the lyrics too much because there's at least a fun element there, which is completely missing from Human.
At least until you get to Song Of Myself, which we kinda discussed already as a sort of precursor to where the band would go on the next album and especially on Human. The first half of this song is actually very good. Just a classic Nightwish rocker with some twists and turns. But, man, that spoken word section to the end is just awful. Awful lyrics, bad performances, complete disconnect from the first half of the song. Like I said with Human, I don't like calling music pretentious but the pseudo-intellectual stuff on these songs is really tough to swallow. Nothing wrong with incorporating science, literature, or whatever else into your music, but actually incorporate it. Sticking a long spoken word section on to the end of an otherwise unrelated song just feels like a way to flaunt how well read you are (not). On the other hand, the title track is a much better executed orchestral track. It's not the most interesting thing ever, but capping off the album with an orchestral medley of the previous songs is a nice way to close things out. I just wish that the giant epic proceeding it wasn't so clunky.
Imaginaerum was the latest album when I first got into Nightwish, so I have a bit of a sentimental attachment to it, but I also think that, as a starting album, the band only got better from there when I started exploring their other work. It's hard to pinpoint what makes one Nightwish album work more than another because they have such a specific sound that they stick to. On this album, I think I just miss a few more of those huge anthemic songs in the realm of Last Ride of the Day/Storytime. It has too many ballads/slower songs. Something like Slow Love Slow should have never made it on a Nightwish album IMO. But I still find the album to be very enjoyable overall and a huge improvement over the bottom 2 on the list.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
...aaaaand another album I feel like I should have put higher, seeing how low it eventually ended up. Not that it surprises me, Imaginaerum is certainly among the more controversial of NW releases, but still...
When it came out, I was actually quite disappointed, it partially felt as a rehash of DPP, distilled and bleached out, two levels lower, and partially it was something else than what I expected and wanted from Nightwish.
Yes, that was partially the problem. In fact, although I keep insisting that it was only in the Floor era when Tuomas truly jumped the shark, "jumping the shark" was my immediate reaction back in the day - Storytime is a nice song, musically (I won't even try to remember what it's copying, precisely) and I genuinely like Anette here, on the entire album, but the lyrics, the image... it's just... cringe. Or, maybe not truly cringe, but wrong. Somehow, Tuomas found a way to become a self-parody on one of his better albums (more on that below) and yet to overdo it on the next two releases.
Oh
I'm not sure if you're talking merely about the lyrics and their delivery or the general performance, but hard disagree here anyway. I actually find (and always have) Imaginaerum to be Anette's stellar hour and I was really sad to see her go. Despite me being a Tarja fanatic first and foremost - and that will hardly change - I admit that for this particular album (and maybe for DPP as well), Anette's the better fit. Neither of the other two singers could manage to sound whimsical (which is the only thing keeping Storytime afloat - you can kinda accept it if the presenter's trying to be cute), neither Tarja nor Floor would be as good a fit for Slow, Love, Slow (now there's a song I hated at first and learned to love) and I'm not going to say that Floor is doing The Last Ride of the Day wrong (unlike Amaranth, which is simply terrible every time I hear it from the otherwise undoubtedly magnificent mouth of Ms Jansen), but it's undeniable it has a rather different atmosphere and I just don't like it as much.
The first glimpses of the "unfunny, preachy Tuomas"
are much more palatable from the mouth of Anette, who actually feels like she's fighting her terrors every night and who wants to cuddle in your arms than from the condescending, Amazonian bazooka of Floor. Makes me wonder if I'd like the last two albums more if the terrible lyrics were delivered by someone less domineering in their presence, precisely like Anette. Anyway...
Anette is the only singer in Nightwish who fits the archetype of the "sprite", for better or worse - I just don't like her songs done by Floor (and probably wouldn't even like them performed by Tarja, for the most part), because where I can see some kind of overlap between Tarja and Floor, there's not much between Anette and the other two. Not talking about technique, proficiency or whatever, more like timbre and flexibility of the voice and so on.
The heavy-handed approach of either of the other two ladies would make this particular album pretty terrible in my book (and even then, not to beat a dead horse, but with her penchant for over-dramatisation, Tarja is actually a better fit for something funny of the two other divas, because I can't help but feel a certain amount of self-irony there, unlike with Floor's more ... "motherly" approach which feels much more dead-serious, but I digress).
Back to the album itself.
I already said enough about Storytime, both the fact it's a cute, energetic opener, that it's cringeworthy image-wise and that Anette's ... "childishness" (for lack of a better word) is its saving grace, really. But let's go through the rest.
If anything, ever since the album came out, I have felt the sequencing is doing it a disservice. I'm not really sure how woud I amend it, but I definitely would anyway, because it always felt to me the "old school bangers" and the "un-Nightwish experimentation" are weirdly grouped together, that Rest Calm feels drowned on the album, that Slow, Love, Slow shouldn't come as early and so on.
Tuomas is continuing with his Celtic/folk fascination from the last album (I know, we could argue about even earlier, but it's only in the Anette era when this became prominent) and I admit that I'm a sucker for I Want My Tears Back in particular. For the main riff, for the Marko presence, for the energy the song has, for the fact the poignant lyrics
is something I'd like to ask Tuomas myself nowadays.
I already mentioned Slow, Love, Slow two times already; never thought I would praise Nightwish of all bands doing a barroom "lying on the piano" cigarette-smoke-infused molasses, but here we go. I find it daring and quite enjoyable. One of the songs I can see other people hating and understanding that, even though I appreciate the song myself.
Ghost River... I don't know, even despite the fact they've had trouble recreating it live... even in the studio version, the song's... weird. And not precisely in a good way. Not bad, really, but the chorus feels tacked on, the entire song feels kinda underbaked, like studio outtakes/discarded parts of songs thrown together, it kinda fizzles out and I really hate the fact the cool guitar riff and the orchestration ... well, ostinato, we shouldn't call it riffs, are wasted on this. The song feels unsatisfactory and with it being so early in the track list, it kinda taints the entire album in the mind of many a listener, methinks.
On the other hand - Scaretale + Arabesque are often overlooked and I feel generally underrated; despite the cheesiness Mosh mentioned, it's an example of Tuomas trying something different, but also pulling on his strengths, so it all kinda works. As a centerpiece of sorts of the entire album, I must say it works for me. Also, it's fun.
Turn Loose the Mermaids, despite being really a Maggie Reilly song, is another oft-forgotten song that is much stronger than the reputation of its album would imply. Also, it's another song I can't really imagine Tarja or Floor doing truly justice (though this time around, maybe Floor might - I think they should unearth it one day).
But my personal favourite of the album, maybe even more than Last Ride or Tears would be Rest Calm - at first I tended to overlook the song, I don't know if it was because of the sequencing or what, but after I got used to the album more, it actually started to climb in my personal list of Nightwish songs (which doesn't really exist in a written, solid form, but you get my drift) and sometime last year it jumped to my personal favourites. No, it's not in my top 10, possibly not even in my top 20, but for some inexplicable reason, it just works for me. I enjoy it to an incredible degree, it makes me emotional, it's definitely a song that should be more talked about - despite the children, as children choirs in popular music is something I don't particularly like at the best of times, but here it kinda works for me as well.
Anyway, with the sequencing and all, the closing title track feels more like a bonus, despite it working really well as a suite. But after the entire album, you're just too tired for that. I think it would have worked better as an overture or maybe even better - an interlude. Some motifs being already past, some yet to come, it would definitely make me appreciate it more.
Which leaves us Song of Myself, right?
But still, it easily wins over Greatest Show for me - first of all, the actual song part of the track slaps (there are parts in the dialogue of Anette doing this rather modern vocal style against the aetheral choirs that make me wonder if this wouldn't be my favourite song off the album under other circumstances) and the obnoxious non-song part is neatly stuffed in the second half, so with just one tap of your finger, you can skip it, were you so inclined. And even then... yes, I know, it's cheesy, it's self-indulgent and everything, but even then I'm kinda able to tolerate it more than Gaia-Tuomas.
Also
I agree, that's really cool.
All in all, I didn't rate the album very high (# 6), but that doesn't mean I don't like it - in fact I love it very much. Some tweaks here and there and it might have been even in my top 5, I guess.
When it came out, I was actually quite disappointed, it partially felt as a rehash of DPP, distilled and bleached out, two levels lower, and partially it was something else than what I expected and wanted from Nightwish.
Yes, that was partially the problem. In fact, although I keep insisting that it was only in the Floor era when Tuomas truly jumped the shark, "jumping the shark" was my immediate reaction back in the day - Storytime is a nice song, musically (I won't even try to remember what it's copying, precisely) and I genuinely like Anette here, on the entire album, but the lyrics, the image... it's just... cringe. Or, maybe not truly cringe, but wrong. Somehow, Tuomas found a way to become a self-parody on one of his better albums (more on that below) and yet to overdo it on the next two releases.
Oh
I'm not sure if you're talking merely about the lyrics and their delivery or the general performance, but hard disagree here anyway. I actually find (and always have) Imaginaerum to be Anette's stellar hour and I was really sad to see her go. Despite me being a Tarja fanatic first and foremost - and that will hardly change - I admit that for this particular album (and maybe for DPP as well), Anette's the better fit. Neither of the other two singers could manage to sound whimsical (which is the only thing keeping Storytime afloat - you can kinda accept it if the presenter's trying to be cute), neither Tarja nor Floor would be as good a fit for Slow, Love, Slow (now there's a song I hated at first and learned to love) and I'm not going to say that Floor is doing The Last Ride of the Day wrong (unlike Amaranth, which is simply terrible every time I hear it from the otherwise undoubtedly magnificent mouth of Ms Jansen), but it's undeniable it has a rather different atmosphere and I just don't like it as much.
The first glimpses of the "unfunny, preachy Tuomas"
are much more palatable from the mouth of Anette, who actually feels like she's fighting her terrors every night and who wants to cuddle in your arms than from the condescending, Amazonian bazooka of Floor. Makes me wonder if I'd like the last two albums more if the terrible lyrics were delivered by someone less domineering in their presence, precisely like Anette. Anyway...
Anette is the only singer in Nightwish who fits the archetype of the "sprite", for better or worse - I just don't like her songs done by Floor (and probably wouldn't even like them performed by Tarja, for the most part), because where I can see some kind of overlap between Tarja and Floor, there's not much between Anette and the other two. Not talking about technique, proficiency or whatever, more like timbre and flexibility of the voice and so on.
The heavy-handed approach of either of the other two ladies would make this particular album pretty terrible in my book (and even then, not to beat a dead horse, but with her penchant for over-dramatisation, Tarja is actually a better fit for something funny of the two other divas, because I can't help but feel a certain amount of self-irony there, unlike with Floor's more ... "motherly" approach which feels much more dead-serious, but I digress).
Back to the album itself.
I already said enough about Storytime, both the fact it's a cute, energetic opener, that it's cringeworthy image-wise and that Anette's ... "childishness" (for lack of a better word) is its saving grace, really. But let's go through the rest.
If anything, ever since the album came out, I have felt the sequencing is doing it a disservice. I'm not really sure how woud I amend it, but I definitely would anyway, because it always felt to me the "old school bangers" and the "un-Nightwish experimentation" are weirdly grouped together, that Rest Calm feels drowned on the album, that Slow, Love, Slow shouldn't come as early and so on.
Tuomas is continuing with his Celtic/folk fascination from the last album (I know, we could argue about even earlier, but it's only in the Anette era when this became prominent) and I admit that I'm a sucker for I Want My Tears Back in particular. For the main riff, for the Marko presence, for the energy the song has, for the fact the poignant lyrics
is something I'd like to ask Tuomas myself nowadays.
I already mentioned Slow, Love, Slow two times already; never thought I would praise Nightwish of all bands doing a barroom "lying on the piano" cigarette-smoke-infused molasses, but here we go. I find it daring and quite enjoyable. One of the songs I can see other people hating and understanding that, even though I appreciate the song myself.
Ghost River... I don't know, even despite the fact they've had trouble recreating it live... even in the studio version, the song's... weird. And not precisely in a good way. Not bad, really, but the chorus feels tacked on, the entire song feels kinda underbaked, like studio outtakes/discarded parts of songs thrown together, it kinda fizzles out and I really hate the fact the cool guitar riff and the orchestration ... well, ostinato, we shouldn't call it riffs, are wasted on this. The song feels unsatisfactory and with it being so early in the track list, it kinda taints the entire album in the mind of many a listener, methinks.
On the other hand - Scaretale + Arabesque are often overlooked and I feel generally underrated; despite the cheesiness Mosh mentioned, it's an example of Tuomas trying something different, but also pulling on his strengths, so it all kinda works. As a centerpiece of sorts of the entire album, I must say it works for me. Also, it's fun.
Turn Loose the Mermaids, despite being really a Maggie Reilly song, is another oft-forgotten song that is much stronger than the reputation of its album would imply. Also, it's another song I can't really imagine Tarja or Floor doing truly justice (though this time around, maybe Floor might - I think they should unearth it one day).
But my personal favourite of the album, maybe even more than Last Ride or Tears would be Rest Calm - at first I tended to overlook the song, I don't know if it was because of the sequencing or what, but after I got used to the album more, it actually started to climb in my personal list of Nightwish songs (which doesn't really exist in a written, solid form, but you get my drift) and sometime last year it jumped to my personal favourites. No, it's not in my top 10, possibly not even in my top 20, but for some inexplicable reason, it just works for me. I enjoy it to an incredible degree, it makes me emotional, it's definitely a song that should be more talked about - despite the children, as children choirs in popular music is something I don't particularly like at the best of times, but here it kinda works for me as well.
Anyway, with the sequencing and all, the closing title track feels more like a bonus, despite it working really well as a suite. But after the entire album, you're just too tired for that. I think it would have worked better as an overture or maybe even better - an interlude. Some motifs being already past, some yet to come, it would definitely make me appreciate it more.
Which leaves us Song of Myself, right?
But still, it easily wins over Greatest Show for me - first of all, the actual song part of the track slaps (there are parts in the dialogue of Anette doing this rather modern vocal style against the aetheral choirs that make me wonder if this wouldn't be my favourite song off the album under other circumstances) and the obnoxious non-song part is neatly stuffed in the second half, so with just one tap of your finger, you can skip it, were you so inclined. And even then... yes, I know, it's cheesy, it's self-indulgent and everything, but even then I'm kinda able to tolerate it more than Gaia-Tuomas.
Also
I agree, that's really cool.
All in all, I didn't rate the album very high (# 6), but that doesn't mean I don't like it - in fact I love it very much. Some tweaks here and there and it might have been even in my top 5, I guess.
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Shmoolikipod
Stranger to the Light
I love how much experimentation there is on this album. Most of these songs stick the landing with only a broken bone or two and we take those. Ghost River for example, wickedly good prechorus, and the most random chorus in a Nightwish song. I think the child has already drowned by the time it's done. Four(!) acoustics/ballads, none of them are particularly incredible but they're pleasant listens.
Speaking of pleasant listens, this is one of their better ones production wise.
Strongly agree with Judas about Anette, her performance is where most of my enjoyment of this album comes from, especially on Storytime, Last Ride of the Day and Scaretale. It's so cheesy it isn't cheesy.
The first part of Song of Myself is very cool, I like the part where the piano decides it's a chug guitar. Second part? You know what, I can tolerate it, until "wHaTs ThE CoLoR Of OuR lUlLaBy???"
I should make a comment about how much I like the transition from the first pre-chorus of Rest Calm, it really does it for me with the short pause.
Overall: great flow, interesting, but a little middling at times and don't forget Arabesque exists 'cause I sure did. I had it at #5.
Speaking of pleasant listens, this is one of their better ones production wise.
Strongly agree with Judas about Anette, her performance is where most of my enjoyment of this album comes from, especially on Storytime, Last Ride of the Day and Scaretale. It's so cheesy it isn't cheesy.
The first part of Song of Myself is very cool, I like the part where the piano decides it's a chug guitar. Second part? You know what, I can tolerate it, until "wHaTs ThE CoLoR Of OuR lUlLaBy???"
I should make a comment about how much I like the transition from the first pre-chorus of Rest Calm, it really does it for me with the short pause.
Overall: great flow, interesting, but a little middling at times and don't forget Arabesque exists 'cause I sure did. I had it at #5.
Sth2112
Ancient Mariner
Imaginareum have an awesome production, with the downtuned guitars and massive orchestras, lots of percussion. Anette do a fairly good job, and have more confidence here. I was lucky to see the band during her final European date, the only Nightwish concert I’ve seen.
Great intro and first single (but Metallica rip off). Ghost river a little forgettable. The jazz song is great, Scaretale is awesome! Turn loose the swans is good (My dying bride rip off), same about The crow, the owl and the dove. Rest calm is heavy (and again Metallica rip off). Last ride of the day is fun. Not so fan of Song of myself.
Kinda surprised Imaginareum ranked over Wishmaster, as Wishmaster seems to be forgotten by some fans, being sandwiched between Oceanborn and Century child.
Great intro and first single (but Metallica rip off). Ghost river a little forgettable. The jazz song is great, Scaretale is awesome! Turn loose the swans is good (My dying bride rip off), same about The crow, the owl and the dove. Rest calm is heavy (and again Metallica rip off). Last ride of the day is fun. Not so fan of Song of myself.
Kinda surprised Imaginareum ranked over Wishmaster, as Wishmaster seems to be forgotten by some fans, being sandwiched between Oceanborn and Century child.