Metallica

Discussion in 'Music Discussion' started by Night Prowler, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. 425

    425 Starblind

    The message of the song is pretty clearly "a nuclear war would decimate the entire planet forever," not "carbon emissions/pollution will decimate the entire planet forever." In that sense, I would say it is absolutely not an environmentalist song. It is an anti-nuclear war song (and in the context of history, anti-Cold War).
     
  2. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    So you say that it can't be both ? It can't be both an anti-nuclear war and environmentalist song ?
     
  3. 425

    425 Starblind

    I don't recall there ever being a point where opposing nuclear war was a high priority of the environmentalist movement. The environmentalist movement seems to have always been more interested in issues such as pollution and depletion of natural resources. So in the sense of it being song of the environmentalist movement, no, I would not say that the term applies to "Blackened". Yes, the song is partially about the environment, but that fact alone does not make it an "environmentalist song."
     
  4. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    It has been one of the biggest points in environmentalism for a long long time. And how can't it be ? For example environmentalists talk about afforestation all the time, nuclear weapons shatter any chance of life let alone afforestation.

    I think what Blackened deals with is simple : Nuclear war's effects to the environment. So it has to do with both and it's an environmentalist song.
     
  5. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    I don't think Blackened is environmentalist enough to be called environmentalism. It doesn't really advocate any protection of our environment or has any morals or anything like that. It is more a song where Hetfield lets his imagination run wild to come up with all the worst case scenarios of a nuclear holocaust. It would have been different if we knew that Metallica spoke up on such things in the press and in interviews etc at that time but as far as I know, environmentalism was never really part of their thing.

    This whole nuclear holocaust thing was very big in the late 80s. Every thrash metal band wrote songs about this topic.
     
  6. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    Ok I'll ask you this. What do you expect from a thrash metal band to be called environmentalist ? You say "environmentalism was never really part of their thing". Whose part was it ? It's not a movement or social group we're talking about, it's a band that writes about different topics.
     
  7. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    I'm saying, that for it to be environmentalism there has to be some sort of environmentalist ideology or idea behind it. An intention of reaching an audience and advocating these ideas - I don't think there is any intention of that in Metallica and Blackened. It is, to me, more likely that it is, together with many other thrash songs, just a song about the worst case scenarios of nuclear warfare from a pure imaginative point of view.

    Like you said, normally we're talking about movements or social groups, political groups etc. Say for example that Metallica had donated thousand of dollars to climate change organizations in 1989 then perhaps it would be more feasible to make a connection like that.
     
  8. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    But yeah I doubt that there was many real environmentalist thrash bands in existence back then. Like I said, nuclear holocaust and war was just a big theme. Singing about destruction and society suits thrash well for reasons I don't have to mention :)

    I doubt there was any thrash metal bands who donated their hard earned measly gig money to environmental organizations , distributed merchandise in 100% recycled organic materials and captured rainwater on their tour bus :p

    Nuclear war just a popular theme of the day.
     
  9. 425

    425 Starblind

    The following joke is in spoilers due to gratuitous 80s James Hetfield impression which necessitates a large amount of profanity:

    "Alright, man, before we do another fucking song for all you out there, we need to tell you something really fucking important, alright? When you finish a fucking beer, you shouldn't fucking throw that shit away, man. You need to fucking recycle and shit, alright? Because otherwise, the whole planet's going to go to shit, alright? Fuck! Here's a fucking song for you all, about all that shit, it's called fucking 'Blackened', alright? Fuck!"
     
    Mosh, Ariana and SixesAlltheway like this.
  10. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    For example of this situation, Megadeth won an award for their environmental lyrics for Countdown to Extinction. There's no source that Dave Mustaine donated for an environmental company or anything like that. The song was about excessive hunting and it said that eventually it would lead to extinction of humanity. So it also was a work of imagination but it won Humane Society's Genesis Award. Blackened didn't win an award but it's often praised for its environmental awareness.
     
  11. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    Countdown to Extinction speaks directly on a topic that was a big current affair back in those days (still is, I guess) it also includes a spoken passage that goes...

    "One hour from now,
    Another species of life form
    Will disappear off the face of the planet
    Forever...and the rate is accelerating"

    By including such a statement, which could have been pulled out from a media source there was was definitely an intention from Dave Mustaine to advocate and enlighten these facts to his fan base in an attempt to raise awareness. I don't see that in Blackened. Overall, Megadeth has always been a much more political and current affairs themed band. Dave has written lyrics on pretty much every major American political issues from gun ownership to abortion and environmentalism. I don't really see the connection you make between this song and Blackened though. Countdown was written about a current affair back in the 90s, a thing that was in the news and actually happened. Blackened is a fictitious portrayal of "what if"...
     
  12. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    Both are environmentalist songs but speaking in different topics. Excuse me but I just don't see how you don't consider a nuclear war possibility a relation to environmental problems. Mother earth is the nature, the song speaks about it dying because of nuclear war. That speaks about probabilities. It is fictious but it is a probability. It says "See our mother put to death, see our mother die" as in open your eyes and be aware and it doesn't try to raise awareness ?

    I guess if James put something like "Atom bomb killed life in Hiroshima before, it something like that happens again there will be no plants on the territory" on the lyrics you'd consider it environmentalist. Smh.
     
  13. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    Sorry no but I don't. I guess we just have conflicted views on the song. Like I said and this is my opinion: Dave Mustaine had an intention of setting out to raise awareness on the ethics of excessive hunting and as such displayed concerns for the sustainability of the environment. Metallica wrote a song about what will happen if mankind goes extinct and planet earth disappears in a big nuclear holocaust ...Is Metallica critical of the way we treat mother earth? Possibly yes, does it make a great thrash song about destruction and termination, Yes, is it an environmental and intentional song about the preservation and care of nature and land that would inspire their fans to get involved in the topic like Countdown to Extinction is? No I don't think so personally :)
     
  14. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    I tell you honestly I have been pretty ignorant when it comes to that album. I might have played it years ago but I am not even sure. Anyhow, I played the whole record this evening and indeed: To Live Is To Die is quite a good instrumental.

    My only "complaint" is that that the the pieces don't flow that well into each other, as if the connections sound a bit forced (various recording sessions pasted together). But it has enough strong melodies and variation to to be liked well!

    Not sure how to rank the overall album. I'd need a few more listenings, but I also think it suffers from the same Puppets syndrome, although One is a clear exception in the melodical department and I also thought Blackened was a very strong opener. Unfortunately most other songs are quite repetitive and monotone.
     
  15. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    This is what I call an environmentalist song! Midnight Oil - Pictures (1985):
     
  16. 425

    425 Starblind

    I would agree that the album is more similar to Puppets than to Lightning. In my opinion, though, the standout tracks of "One", "To Live Is To Die", "Dyers Eve" and "Harvester of Sorrow" make it a better album than its immediate predecessor and about on par with or slightly better than the debut. As for the rest of the songs, "Eye of the Beholder" never did much for me, I agree that "Blackened" is a pretty good opener, the title song is good but overstays its welcome and the remaining two are just not especially remarkable.
     
  17. Cornfed Hick

    Cornfed Hick Irascible

    Count me among those who still believe Puppets is Metallica's best album. Nothing against Lightning or Justice, which are undisputed classics (unlike 425, I think "Eye of the Beholder" may actually be my favorite song from that album...I just love the fade-in riff). I just think Puppets is consistently great top-to-bottom whereas the other two have some weaker moments. "Battery" is a slightly better opener than "Blackened" (though "Fight Fire With Fire" is an affirmatively weak opener), "Puppets" is the best epic (though "One" is close), "Leper Messiah" wins the Tony Iommi award for most hellacious slow riff, "Disposable Heroes" is about as fast a song as they ever did, "Sanitarium" is simply awesome, "Orion" is a great instrumental, and "Damage Inc." is the name I gave my fantasy football team. Plus -- and this no doubt has something to do with my opinion -- Puppets was my introduction to Metallica when I was in high school. It was mind-blowing to hear music that complex and melodic, and yet that fast and heavy.
     
  18. ______no5

    ______no5 The Angel Of The Odd

    I didn't know that it was Dylan who wrote that :ok:
    Also the song Friend is a Four Letter Word from Cake came to mind.

     
  19. SixesAlltheway

    SixesAlltheway (slow heavy metal music playing)

    Well there ya go. They had a sort of on-and-off love affair in the early 60s.

    But you hear that a lot. People don't really know how much Dylan wrote because a lot of his stuff became even more popular as covers. I still meet people who think All Along The Watchtower is a Hendrix original or Mr. Tambourine Man is by The Byrds or Knocking on Heavens Door is Clapton/GNR etc etc etc :)
     
  20. ______no5

    ______no5 The Angel Of The Odd

    Yeap I knew about the affair, also I know that Steve Jobs had an affair with Baez in big part because of that!!
    Generally Dylan is a very very big chapter in the (American) modern music; he had a huge impact on the giant of Johnny Cash and even Hendrix started to sing because of him -if he can sing, I also can do it!!
     

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