METALLICA ALBUM RANKING GAME: #9 REVEALED
- Thread starter Mosh
- Start date
Confeos
Game time started.
I think I had probably only listened to Hardwired and 72 Seasons once each in their entirety since their respective releases, so I went and gave them both a full spin again before making the ranking. I did enjoy 72 Seasons the most, though it isn't saying a lot. Hardwired has higher highs, but also lower lows, and is quite bloated and uneven in general. 72 Seasons is more consistent, but with very few standout moments, and despite their similar lengths, it somehow feels like it drags less. And the production is definitely better. But honestly, it's as close as it could be to a coinflip, and don't really see any particular reason to play either record again.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
We gotta put our heads together and come up with some gold, man.
Siddharth
Long Distance Trooper
Kill 'Em All
Ride The Lightning
Master Of Puppets
...And Justice For All
Metallica (the black album)
Death Magnetic
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Fuck, my draft for the write-up has got deleted. I'll try to check the web browser cache at home, anyway
yep, I had those on almost the same level, in the end I went with Hardwired being higher, because of the higher highs (there's really nothing like Atlas, Bone or Halo on Seasons); anyway, I actually rank Kill Em All below both.
yep, I had those on almost the same level, in the end I went with Hardwired being higher, because of the higher highs (there's really nothing like Atlas, Bone or Halo on Seasons); anyway, I actually rank Kill Em All below both.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Same. KEA is my second least favorite.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
BTW - that's irrelevant to Seasons, but when I was much younger, I always confused Clive Burr, Cliff Burton and Clive Bunker.
I mean, if I got a penny for each time there was a Cli[ff/ve] Bu[..]r[..] bloke in a classic band I was listening to, who was part of the rhythm section and was always only on the first few records by the respective band, I'd have three pennies.
Which isn't much, but it's still weird it happened thrice.
I mean, if I got a penny for each time there was a Cli[ff/ve] Bu[..]r[..] bloke in a classic band I was listening to, who was part of the rhythm section and was always only on the first few records by the respective band, I'd have three pennies.
Which isn't much, but it's still weird it happened thrice.
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9: Load
10: 72 Seasons
11: St. Anger
Total score: 85
Highest score: 9 (@Diesel 11)
Lowest score: 1 (@KiDDo)
One of the things I was very curious about going into this game was where Load/ReLoad would place. How close would their scores be and if they would get any unusually high rankings. A lot of this will be revealed when we get to ReLoad, but one thing I will say is that both of these albums were very polarizing. For one thing, it actually surprises me that we're still seeing last place rankings for albums from the band that released St. Anger. With that being said, unlike 72 Seasons (and obviously St Anger), these albums actually have some pretty strong supporters on the board. While Diesel was the only member to put it in their top 3, there were quite a few lists that had it in the top five. Needless to say, there is a contingency of Metallica fans who rate the album just outside the classic period, with a few even ranking it above some of the classic albums. On the other hand, the most common rating for the album was second to last, which speaks to Load's relatively weak showing overall. At the end of the day though, for post-Black Album Metallica it's realistically only a battle for the middle tier of the discography.
A lot of my comments on Load will apply to ReLoad as well, but I will say specifically to Load it doesn't surprise me that this album scored worse than its counterpart. Obviously they are tonally similar albums, but I think Load really lacks some of the band's tighter and more anthemic headbanging tracks. Like 72 Seasons, Load spends a little too much time in the mid tempo sludge rock zone. Songs like Poor Twisted Me are just slogs to me and don't really go anywhere. The slide guitar bluesy sound just doesn't really work for them imo. Songs like Wasting My Hate, Ain't my Bitch, and King Nothing are clear standouts on this album for me, and generally this album does better when it is more uptempo and riff driven. They're trying a lot of stuff here, which I can respect, but I do wonder about the merits of releasing two 90 minute albums that are very musically similar and are, at best, very hit or miss. Obviously the stereotypical thing to do with double albums is experiment with condensing them down to a single album, but imo the secret to Load/ReLoad is to condense them down into a single 40 minute album. In this alternate universe, I think this material would have been given a bit more credit for how bold and creative it can be without all the tired fluff around it. And then the 2+ hours of outtakes would become storied bonus material and b-sides that kinda became ubiquitous with the 90s alternative rock scene that Metallica apes on this album.
I don't begrudge Metallica for making these albums. I have always been kind of agnostic on Metallica in the sense that I don't buy into the criticism that they sold out, but I also don't think they made creative decisions that benefitted them as artists or even commercially. Mama Said is a pretty good example of this. You want to write a country song? OK, kind of a weird choice but I don't hate it. Especially on a near 90 minute album, like I said before it's refreshing to hear them try new things and those are moments where the album's length feels a little bit more justified, but I'm not sure if Mama Said really succeeds in what it sets out to do. I have a hard time calling it a sellout when the song wasn't a big single for them (it didn't even chart AFAIK). I almost feel like it was a missed opportunity to have some real Nashville songwriters come in to workshop the song with Het and get the band working on some tighter arrangements instead of Kirk's bluesy noodling and the stock drumming. The song's five and a half minute length also just makes it a commercial non-starter. So it kinda calls into question what they were actually going for there. And that kinda sums up the whole album for me. Like, sure try taking Metallica to strange new places, but maybe put some more effort into making it sound good?
At the end of the day this album's downfall is the same thing that is always Metallica's downfall. Songs that are kinda just slapped together with needlessly dragged out sections and no real care for arrangement. An album where anything goes, which at times is both exhausting and also disappointing that it ends up sounding so bland.
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9: Load
10: 72 Seasons
11: St. Anger
Total score: 85
Highest score: 9 (@Diesel 11)
Lowest score: 1 (@KiDDo)
One of the things I was very curious about going into this game was where Load/ReLoad would place. How close would their scores be and if they would get any unusually high rankings. A lot of this will be revealed when we get to ReLoad, but one thing I will say is that both of these albums were very polarizing. For one thing, it actually surprises me that we're still seeing last place rankings for albums from the band that released St. Anger. With that being said, unlike 72 Seasons (and obviously St Anger), these albums actually have some pretty strong supporters on the board. While Diesel was the only member to put it in their top 3, there were quite a few lists that had it in the top five. Needless to say, there is a contingency of Metallica fans who rate the album just outside the classic period, with a few even ranking it above some of the classic albums. On the other hand, the most common rating for the album was second to last, which speaks to Load's relatively weak showing overall. At the end of the day though, for post-Black Album Metallica it's realistically only a battle for the middle tier of the discography.
A lot of my comments on Load will apply to ReLoad as well, but I will say specifically to Load it doesn't surprise me that this album scored worse than its counterpart. Obviously they are tonally similar albums, but I think Load really lacks some of the band's tighter and more anthemic headbanging tracks. Like 72 Seasons, Load spends a little too much time in the mid tempo sludge rock zone. Songs like Poor Twisted Me are just slogs to me and don't really go anywhere. The slide guitar bluesy sound just doesn't really work for them imo. Songs like Wasting My Hate, Ain't my Bitch, and King Nothing are clear standouts on this album for me, and generally this album does better when it is more uptempo and riff driven. They're trying a lot of stuff here, which I can respect, but I do wonder about the merits of releasing two 90 minute albums that are very musically similar and are, at best, very hit or miss. Obviously the stereotypical thing to do with double albums is experiment with condensing them down to a single album, but imo the secret to Load/ReLoad is to condense them down into a single 40 minute album. In this alternate universe, I think this material would have been given a bit more credit for how bold and creative it can be without all the tired fluff around it. And then the 2+ hours of outtakes would become storied bonus material and b-sides that kinda became ubiquitous with the 90s alternative rock scene that Metallica apes on this album.
I don't begrudge Metallica for making these albums. I have always been kind of agnostic on Metallica in the sense that I don't buy into the criticism that they sold out, but I also don't think they made creative decisions that benefitted them as artists or even commercially. Mama Said is a pretty good example of this. You want to write a country song? OK, kind of a weird choice but I don't hate it. Especially on a near 90 minute album, like I said before it's refreshing to hear them try new things and those are moments where the album's length feels a little bit more justified, but I'm not sure if Mama Said really succeeds in what it sets out to do. I have a hard time calling it a sellout when the song wasn't a big single for them (it didn't even chart AFAIK). I almost feel like it was a missed opportunity to have some real Nashville songwriters come in to workshop the song with Het and get the band working on some tighter arrangements instead of Kirk's bluesy noodling and the stock drumming. The song's five and a half minute length also just makes it a commercial non-starter. So it kinda calls into question what they were actually going for there. And that kinda sums up the whole album for me. Like, sure try taking Metallica to strange new places, but maybe put some more effort into making it sound good?
At the end of the day this album's downfall is the same thing that is always Metallica's downfall. Songs that are kinda just slapped together with needlessly dragged out sections and no real care for arrangement. An album where anything goes, which at times is both exhausting and also disappointing that it ends up sounding so bland.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Wow, that's a rough showing for Load.
I personally rank Load/ReLoad higher than the current output because, even though they are bloated and bizarre, they feel more true to the artists. Yes, the issues Mosh mentioned above are certainly worth discussing, but overall when these songs hit they hit hard.
Bleeding Me and Outlaw Torn might be long and bluesy, but they are incredible songs.
There's definitely a lot of filler here (Poor Twisted Me, Cure, Mama Said), but overall I dig this album.
I personally rank Load/ReLoad higher than the current output because, even though they are bloated and bizarre, they feel more true to the artists. Yes, the issues Mosh mentioned above are certainly worth discussing, but overall when these songs hit they hit hard.
Bleeding Me and Outlaw Torn might be long and bluesy, but they are incredible songs.
There's definitely a lot of filler here (Poor Twisted Me, Cure, Mama Said), but overall I dig this album.
This has always been my take as well. As a very soft Metallica fan, basically an outsider looking in, I always wonder if Metallica's downfall is that they are a little too afraid to go all in on the music they actually want to make. With that in mind, I find something like LuLu to be one of the most honest albums they have made, even though I strongly believe both artists were trolling the fans with that. But Lars (much like Lou Reed) seems like the kind of guy who would enjoy messing with his fans in the name of art.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
*near 80 minutes
Damn, I’m shocked that Load is so low. I get it’s not everyone’s thing, but I think the songs are mostly strong and it’s really well sequenced. Add the full outro to “Outlaw Torn” and split it into two discs and it’s a great double album. Reload has some good songs but there’s a ton of filler on that one. I think that in general Metallica had the best batch ready to go on the first album. I’ve got a soft spot for even the weakest songs on the first Load.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
I'm probably the #1 Reload defender here but never in a million years would I have guessed that it gets a higher ranking than Load. I adore both albums but this is pretty shocking.
I had more to say on this but I don't want to spoil future rankings. I'll just say that I'm less surprised as ReLoad has more "hits" particularly Unforgiven II and Fuel. I think people might just remember ReLoad better, particularly the folks who don't like either album much.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
I am getting immense satisfaction from the fact Load ranked lower than Reload, at least this once - I mean, finally.
I have always found the "common knowledge" that "Metallica sucks cause they don't do thrash anymore" -> "These alt rock records suck" -> "Load is kinda okay but Reload is terrible, probably because it came out second" annoying, a tad lazy and maybe even a bit disingenuous ... and to me, it smells of people who haven't heard either since they came out.
No, I'm not attacking Azas or Jer - I believe your opinion is informed, no offence meant, it's just, you know, in general this repeated opinion tends to give off the vibe "TNOTB is the best Maiden album and VXI the worst one - everybody tells me so!" And, well, often it's coming from people who kinda hate both Re/Loads, so, like, whatever, whoever made you an expert on what you hate, huh?
For what it's worth, yes, I have Reload in my top 5 and Load was next to last. It's primarily because Reload is much more cohesive and has some of my personal Tullica 90s favourites... whereas Load is much more uneven and feels much much more bloated, despite being only about 2-3 minutes and most of the songs fall flat for me. I'll write more tomorrow.
I have always found the "common knowledge" that "Metallica sucks cause they don't do thrash anymore" -> "These alt rock records suck" -> "Load is kinda okay but Reload is terrible, probably because it came out second" annoying, a tad lazy and maybe even a bit disingenuous ... and to me, it smells of people who haven't heard either since they came out.
No, I'm not attacking Azas or Jer - I believe your opinion is informed, no offence meant, it's just, you know, in general this repeated opinion tends to give off the vibe "TNOTB is the best Maiden album and VXI the worst one - everybody tells me so!" And, well, often it's coming from people who kinda hate both Re/Loads, so, like, whatever, whoever made you an expert on what you hate, huh?
For what it's worth, yes, I have Reload in my top 5 and Load was next to last. It's primarily because Reload is much more cohesive and has some of my personal Tullica 90s favourites... whereas Load is much more uneven and feels much much more bloated, despite being only about 2-3 minutes and most of the songs fall flat for me. I'll write more tomorrow.
I would like to know who is actually expressing this opinion.
(For reference, in the Iron Maiden version of this game, TNOTB tied with Senjutsu and performed worse than two reunion era albums and all the other 80s Dickinson era albums)
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
The Maiden one? First of all, that was supposed to be an aside, primarily the mainstream "classics good, Blaze bad" attitude, I hadn't thought about that particular sentence that hard.
Second of all this forum isn't probably a good example of anything, we have some pretty weird opinions around here (I don't complain, in general the forum is much more reunion/Blaze friendly than is the norm, for example), but I was talking more about the casuals. Maiden Reddit has just today or so voted TNOTB the most overrated Maiden album, so I'm probably not the only one who feels that way, but I picked TNOTB at random, finding it both the "classic and famous Maiden album", yet incredibly overrated, didn't think about it that much.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Anyway, Load. Man, I'm not any tr00 kvlt wanker that'd hate Tullica in the 90s in general, but does this album suck walrus' balls. Of the really good songs, there's Bleeding Me, The House Jack Built and - though it feels kinda underbaked - Until It Sleeps. Throw in Ain't My Bitch as an okay opening rocker (although it's also the first time you can't really take Tullica seriously, with Hetfield's suddenly found Rastafarianism - "It ain't my bit! JAH!" - sorry for making this joke twice, but, you know, different threads for different folks) and, unexpectedly, Mama Said, which is Hetfield being rednecky as fuck but also kinda nice and you get ... well, you get a very good to great EP.
As for the rest?
2X4 - even after years and tens and tens of listens, I don't remember how this song goes, which for the very second track on the record is definitely a problem. But it's not just that, there's this string of bland, superfluous, mushy mid-tempo mid-length overall mid- tracks Cure -> Poor Twisted Me -> Wasting My Hate -> Thorn Within -> Ronnie (with the aforementioned Mama Said being thrown in for good measure) that completely fuse together in my mind and again, after years of listening to these records, I just can't tell apart.
It doesn't help even the titles are wrong if you glance at the tracklist - you get "Bleeding Me" almost right next to "Poor Twisted Me" and "Thorn Within" almost right next to "The Outlaw Torn" and after seventy-something minutes when you get to the latter, which almost had potential for being up there with the greats, it's just so overlong and again, plodding and closing off such a dreadful string of songs - the entire second half of the album - and closes off such a horribly dull record overall, it gets kinda tainted by association and I'm just glad the album is over.
Besides that, not much remains, King Nothing is kinda good, but to me feels like a preparation for the grungier following album and Hero of the Day, while I respect MindRuler's opinion, does nothing for me - I'm all for bands trying out different scales and everything, but the major feel doesn't really suite Tullica, Hetfield, even this album. I get how someone might have it as their highlight, but for me it's just kinda meh.
So... well, I might agree with James that the Re/Load album covers were stupid in general, but I'd be still more inclined to drink bloody urine than bloody semen, so there.
Overall, my second-least favourite Tullica album and I actually wondered if I won't put St. Anger above it, because it has more edge and even the worst part of that album are somehow more memorable than the bog of this album's second half.
As for the rest?
2X4 - even after years and tens and tens of listens, I don't remember how this song goes, which for the very second track on the record is definitely a problem. But it's not just that, there's this string of bland, superfluous, mushy mid-tempo mid-length overall mid- tracks Cure -> Poor Twisted Me -> Wasting My Hate -> Thorn Within -> Ronnie (with the aforementioned Mama Said being thrown in for good measure) that completely fuse together in my mind and again, after years of listening to these records, I just can't tell apart.
It doesn't help even the titles are wrong if you glance at the tracklist - you get "Bleeding Me" almost right next to "Poor Twisted Me" and "Thorn Within" almost right next to "The Outlaw Torn" and after seventy-something minutes when you get to the latter, which almost had potential for being up there with the greats, it's just so overlong and again, plodding and closing off such a dreadful string of songs - the entire second half of the album - and closes off such a horribly dull record overall, it gets kinda tainted by association and I'm just glad the album is over.
Besides that, not much remains, King Nothing is kinda good, but to me feels like a preparation for the grungier following album and Hero of the Day, while I respect MindRuler's opinion, does nothing for me - I'm all for bands trying out different scales and everything, but the major feel doesn't really suite Tullica, Hetfield, even this album. I get how someone might have it as their highlight, but for me it's just kinda meh.
So... well, I might agree with James that the Re/Load album covers were stupid in general, but I'd be still more inclined to drink bloody urine than bloody semen, so there.
Overall, my second-least favourite Tullica album and I actually wondered if I won't put St. Anger above it, because it has more edge and even the worst part of that album are somehow more memorable than the bog of this album's second half.