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Maidenfans forums and IE 8 don't match / solution topic
- Thread starter Forostar
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Uhm. No, they're not. PCs are underpriced, and PC mfgs barely break even on a $500 system.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Considering PC is the market standard the PC prices also set the price standard for competing solutions. That means that if something cost twice as much as the market standard then there's something wrong and it's not with the PC the problem lies.LooseCannon said:
I'm sorry, but a 20-inch iMac with 2.66 ghz dual core, 2GB memory, 320GB hard drive and NVIDIA GeForce 9400M for 1199$ is just ridiculous. I could easily buld a PC which kicks its ass for just a few hundred. Mac's are overpriced, especially since components aren't that expensive to make. AN integrated soundcard costs 1$ to make. The graphics that comes with the iMac is crap, you only get 2 gb memory (is it even DDR3? Memories are really cheap too) and a dual core. A dual core. With something that costs a smaller fortune. Sorry, but Mac's are way too expensive. You can't sell something for 1200 bucks and have a shitty graphicscard and integrated sound.
And no, iMac's being small does not warrant for the prices. It's still a desktop computer.
Yax, I'm sitting on a 20" iMac right now. And when you build your PC, don't forget to calculate in the cost of the operating system and virus protection. So, let's pull up a popular parts website and compare cash.
So, what are the parts you need to build an equivalent computer?
1. a 20" monitor @16:10 ($299).
2. A 8gb of RAM capable motherboard with DDR3 support and 1066ghz bus speed. ($134)
3. A 2.5" 320gb hard drive @7200 RPMs. ($102).
4. A Penryn 2.66ghz Core 2 Duo processor. I can't find the equivalent model (the E8200) anymore, but this is the closest they have. I'll give you a $75 credit on this. ($172)
5. 2GB of DDR3 PC38500. ($54)
6. WiFi N capacity. ($35)
7. Bluetooth 2.1 capacity. ($14) - Note, I am not pleased with this, I wanted internal only that didn't burn a USB slot, but I can't find one for a PC.
8. 8x DVD +/- R DL burner. ($35)
9. The cheapest 64-bit OS you can get. ($162)
10. One year of Norton or McAfee AntiVirus. ($40)
11. A GeForce 9400 M 256 DDR3 GPU. (doesn't exist for PCs, but let's guess...around $60 based on equivalent Radeon models)
Total: $1,107, plus labour & shipping?
The end result is this. You can build a good PC for cheaper, and probably personally you could. I know I can, if I shop carefully for parts and such. But the AVERAGE JOE can't do that. They can't bittorrent them some Windows 7 and know how to avoid viruses. They won't want to use the monitor you have lying around. Keep in mind that I picked the cheapest possible parts for this build, even though Apple uses parts of better quality for RAM and screens and such.
Oh, I forgot the case and supply, so toss in another $40 on the total there.
The quality of a $500 laptop is not very high. My parents bought one for my sister before sending her to school and it's been in for repair thrice. Basically it's garbage, and they're going to just give her a new one if it fucks up again. There's been a trend by the big PC makers to cut cost, cut costs, cut costs, and they make a profit by moving to cheaper casing, RAM, etc. We've been moving towards the disposable 1-2 year PC for awhile, like we treat TVs and such. You can set a standard price with crap components and construction, but if you look at high-end PCs, you are paying the same you pay for equivalent Macs. End of story.
So, what are the parts you need to build an equivalent computer?
1. a 20" monitor @16:10 ($299).
2. A 8gb of RAM capable motherboard with DDR3 support and 1066ghz bus speed. ($134)
3. A 2.5" 320gb hard drive @7200 RPMs. ($102).
4. A Penryn 2.66ghz Core 2 Duo processor. I can't find the equivalent model (the E8200) anymore, but this is the closest they have. I'll give you a $75 credit on this. ($172)
5. 2GB of DDR3 PC38500. ($54)
6. WiFi N capacity. ($35)
7. Bluetooth 2.1 capacity. ($14) - Note, I am not pleased with this, I wanted internal only that didn't burn a USB slot, but I can't find one for a PC.
8. 8x DVD +/- R DL burner. ($35)
9. The cheapest 64-bit OS you can get. ($162)
10. One year of Norton or McAfee AntiVirus. ($40)
11. A GeForce 9400 M 256 DDR3 GPU. (doesn't exist for PCs, but let's guess...around $60 based on equivalent Radeon models)
Total: $1,107, plus labour & shipping?
The end result is this. You can build a good PC for cheaper, and probably personally you could. I know I can, if I shop carefully for parts and such. But the AVERAGE JOE can't do that. They can't bittorrent them some Windows 7 and know how to avoid viruses. They won't want to use the monitor you have lying around. Keep in mind that I picked the cheapest possible parts for this build, even though Apple uses parts of better quality for RAM and screens and such.
Oh, I forgot the case and supply, so toss in another $40 on the total there.
The quality of a $500 laptop is not very high. My parents bought one for my sister before sending her to school and it's been in for repair thrice. Basically it's garbage, and they're going to just give her a new one if it fucks up again. There's been a trend by the big PC makers to cut cost, cut costs, cut costs, and they make a profit by moving to cheaper casing, RAM, etc. We've been moving towards the disposable 1-2 year PC for awhile, like we treat TVs and such. You can set a standard price with crap components and construction, but if you look at high-end PCs, you are paying the same you pay for equivalent Macs. End of story.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Me and my friend built a new PC for me this past June.
22" HD monitor
I got the best AMD processor I could find with a suitable motherboard.
Radeon HD4850 graphicscard
4 GB ddr3 RAM (Could've used some more, I know)
2 soundcards (Asus Xonar DX for games and movies and a Waveterminal with breakout box for music recording and production)
1 tb Western Digital harddrive
A new chassi with powersupply
And I paid about 9000 SEK in total (mind you that computer components are more expensive here too, with taxes and whatnot). That's 1300 dollars with additional taxes included. That being said, this wasnt a laptop.
22" HD monitor
I got the best AMD processor I could find with a suitable motherboard.
Radeon HD4850 graphicscard
4 GB ddr3 RAM (Could've used some more, I know)
2 soundcards (Asus Xonar DX for games and movies and a Waveterminal with breakout box for music recording and production)
1 tb Western Digital harddrive
A new chassi with powersupply
And I paid about 9000 SEK in total (mind you that computer components are more expensive here too, with taxes and whatnot). That's 1300 dollars with additional taxes included. That being said, this wasnt a laptop.
Yeah, but you used AMD and Radeon parts, you're already sacrificing quality. Plus, you didn't buy an OS I see.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Intel are slightly better, yes, but a hell of a lot more expensive. So I think AMD's are generally better for the price. No, I'm still on my win XP copy (though you might as well go Ubuntu if you buy a new PC and don't want to pay for an OS. Ubunto is really good). I will though get Win7 for free next fall (my friend will attent some IT program at college where you can choose freely from Microsoft's list of products).LooseCannon said:
Yes, but most people can't figure that stuff out on their own, mate. That's why buying a quality computer product, a Mac is equally as reasonable as a high-end PC.
____no5
Free Man
LooseCannon said:
Excellent post LC
Here are some facts that are -I believe- pretty the same everywhere:
1. People know that Windows is shit, yet they all have PCs operating with Windows
2. People know that Mac is better, yet they don't pass easily from PCs to MAc
3. But once someone get a Mac, that's it! He won't stop advertising it at every occasion
4. Nobody ever complained about a Mac
Let me assure you, #4 is NOT true.
Quetzalcoatlus said:Here are some facts that are -I believe- pretty the same everywhere:
1. People know that Windows is shit, yet they all have PCs operating with Windows
2. People know that Mac is better, yet they don't pass easily from PCs to MAc
3. But once someone get a Mac, that's it! He won't stop advertising it at every occasion
4. Nobody ever complained about a Mac
Those aren't facts, those are beliefs.
1. I heartily disagree. Windows is principally excellent, it only has a number of flaws, like almost anything.
2. I hate Mac. Most of the features people kept saying made Mac better than Windows have by now been incorporated to Windows.
3. Wrong. There are people like that, and yes, they do evoke in me the urge to smash their face with a brick, but I know many people who got themselves a Mac and keep all quiet about it. In fact, I have known people who got themselves a Mac and installed Windows on it after a few weeks.
4. Definitely wrong. The amount of people I know who complain about Mac by far outweigh the amount of people who don't. As I said, I hate Mac, and I know many people who share my sentiments.
Some OS X features were stolen by Windows, and Vista's implementation of them was pretty crusty. Having said that, 7 looks better, but I still turn that crap off. I would hazard a guess that most people who have purchased a Mac like it in the end. But most people who don't like a Mac won't get one.
Ask me again in a few years.
Quetzalcoatlus said:
Ask me again in a few years.
LooseCannon said:
I worked at a Mac office for a year, and when that year was over I thanked God for being allowed to work with Windows again. I got used to it, but once I got used to it, I still hated it. You can get used to living with only one arm as well, but you'd still prefer living with two arms.
Which is your prerogative of course. For me, the worst part is going back and forth between the two, when I get home and adjusting to a PC's shortcuts again. In the end, I don't see much difference between them.
The thing simply is, I am used to working with Windows. I am also used to its flaws and shortcomings, and I have found my ways around them. I always feel impaired when working with a Mac. I can work with it, but I haven't found my way around the difficulties, and I don't feel like doing that either only because it's so fashionable. People have tried to convert me to Mac, but they can bite my shiny metal ass.
Okay Titanius Anglesmith.