Maidenfans forums and IE 8 don't match / solution topic

LooseCannon said:
Ask me again in a few years.

Not very enlightening I'm afraid. Having used only Windows during the years, I am considering to buy a Mac next time.
#3 is the reason: ... once someone get a Mac ...he won't stop advertising it at every occasion

So tell me if you like : What would be the reason for someone not to buy a Mac? Don't involve money, nor the difficulties for
changing an OS. Is there any other reason that you would disapprove the purchase?
 
1. I heartily disagree. Windows is principally excellent, it only has a number of flaws, like almost anything.

And i heartily disagree with that. Windows has many design flaws, it's a lazy implementation of a bullshit operating system design.
Having said that, it's the best system out there for Average Joe and Average Corporate Joe, for a number of reasons;

- It's interface has been around since the days of Windows 95 and NT4, that's 15+ years, and people are used to it.
- It features the biggest repository of application software
- Supports almost every home & SOHO hardware device money can buy.
- Microsoft's monopoly and market politics have rendered them into #1 choice for office information systems, not going into quality here, but...
- Windows dekstops/workstations naturally integrate into that kind of environment.

Back to original topic...why is Internet Explorer still the #1 choice around offices and such? Because it seamlessly integrates into Microsoft Active Directory, which is a centralized domain control system where you can control all your computers from one place with user/group policies, rights, etc...administrator can "push" and control Internet Explorer configuration / security settings and updates nice and quick from a single server towards n computers.

Opera and Firefox, miles ahead in browser area...can't. I mean they can, with tweaks and hacks. But it's not the "official" way and you're not going to get support for it.



2. I hate Mac. Most of the features people kept saying made Mac better than Windows have by now been incorporated to Windows.

Wrong. You're talking about user interface features such as widgets, transparency, etc. However, Mac OSX is fully qualified UNIX system based on BSD and Mach. That's why graphics designers, sound producers and etc. are still on MacOSX side...you can't beat UNIX stability, philosophy and performance. OSX systems often bug because of crappy 3rd party applications, well that's true also for Windows, however i've seen Windows slowdown and bugs without any crappy 3rd party software;

Windows can slowdown because of overfilled registry - that's impossible with UNIX systems, cause they store software configuration in decentralized manner. Windows can slowdown because of fragmented filesystem due to heavy usage. UNIX systems don have fragmented filesystems.

I have around 230 non-base software packages installed on my FreeBSD and i have around 20,000 files distributed on my filesystem. It's 0% faster and 0% slower than base, vanilla installation with 0 non-base packages and couple of hundreds of files. Let's see that ratio with Windows.

3. Wrong. There are people like that, and yes, they do evoke in me the urge to smash their face with a brick, but I know many people who got themselves a Mac and keep all quiet about it. In fact, I have known people who got themselves a Mac and installed Windows on it after a few weeks.

User's choice. Most people are lazy to learn and are used to Windows workflow and how-you-do-stuff.

4. Definitely wrong. The amount of people I know who complain about Mac by far outweigh the amount of people who don't. As I said, I hate Mac, and I know many people who share my sentiments.

I'd like to see real arguments here. You can hate Mac because it sells design, it's more like Armani than computer company, but they do have rock-solid hardware and operating system under that shiny hood.

Some OS X features were stolen by Windows, and Vista's implementation of them was pretty crusty

You're all taking from the perspective of computer user who only sees things on surface, and that's GUI. All those gimicks and fancy 3D effects have nothing to do with operating system itself. I can switch to Berly / AIGLX right now and have 3D effects on my BSD workstation that puts both OSX and Aero to shame.

However it's only an effect. Once you start using your computer for certain function, you won't even notice that effects. Do i notice my Opera titlebar while i'm posting this? No. There might be naked 3D women dancing on top of it, i wouldn't notice it because i'm concentrated on this post.
 
Zare said:
You're all taking from the perspective of computer user who only sees things on surface, and that's GUI. All those gimicks and fancy 3D effects have nothing to do with operating system itself. I can switch to Berly / AIGLX right now and have 3D effects on my BSD workstation that puts both OSX and Aero to shame.

However it's only an effect. Once you start using your computer for certain function, you won't even notice that effects. Do i notice my Opera titlebar while i'm posting this? No. There might be naked 3D women dancing on top of it, i wouldn't notice it because i'm concentrated on this post.

Yes, Zare, I know.  I am talking about GUI stuff, and I am very familiar with the failings of the NT Kernel compared to the Unix stuff.  Windows likes to steal flashy GUI, the difference is I think OSX has more substance beneath it than NT.  But that's not what Perun was talking about, as he doesn't know as much about computers as you or I do, he probably doesn't care about the registry, etc.
 
Zare said:
Wrong. You're talking about user interface features such as widgets, transparency, etc. However, Mac OSX is fully qualified UNIX system based on BSD and Mach. That's why graphics designers, sound producers and etc. are still on MacOSX side...you can't beat UNIX stability, philosophy and performance. OSX systems often bug because of crappy 3rd party applications, well that's true also for Windows, however i've seen Windows slowdown and bugs without any crappy 3rd party software;

There we have it: Yes, I'm your average Joe when it comes to computers, and that's why I prefer Windows. I literally don't understand the quoted segment, because I have no clue what UNIX, BSD and Mach is, nor so I know what the difference between OSX and OS is. So all the pro-Mac arguments fall on empty ears with me, and that's why I'm not advertising Mac, and why I am allergic to people attempting to convert me.
 
So all the pro-Mac arguments fall on empty ears with me
he probably doesn't care about the registry, etc.

Perun shouldn't care about insights of configuration systems like registry or /etc tree, but Perun should care how his operating system behaves. Windows becomes sluggish over time, especially for end-users that like to install new software / games. MacOSX doesn't. That's the end-user experience.

So there's pro-Mac argument that you should listen to. I can also try to debunk other myths if you have any. Just to be on the clear side, i hate Microsoft and i don't like Apple much, either. Former crippled computer industry permanently, latter is trying to make fashion out of it. But i am also objective in this discussion.

I literally don't understand the quoted segment, because I have no clue what UNIX, BSD and Mach is, nor so I know what the difference between OSX and OS

You probably don't want to understand, but i'll try explaining anyway. There's MacOS and there's MacOSX. MacOS is old Apple operating system, alike Windows 95, operating system on Commodore Amiga and such. Steve Jobs left Apple and created a company called NeXT, to produce high-end computers. First web server, first web page ever served ran on NeXTcube (one of their models). UNIX is a type of operating system created in the seventies to power first computer networks and to fulfill the needs of multitasking and multiuser computing (and that same multitasking and multiuser was advertised as one of the strengths of Windows XP in 2001, seventies-legacy technology...). BSD is one type of UNIX created on Berkeley University (Berkeley Software Distribution). Mach is the type of operating system kernel (the main core of the system) designed in mind of controlling many different, but still critical tasks. In layman's terms, it was designed to be ultra-responsive.

BSD UNIX is a rock solid operating system marvel which basically invented the implementation of Internet, invented the critical data-serving operations, and still powers the Internet today and pushes the limits. So Steve Jobs' NeXT system blended BSD and Mach, to achieve ultimate stability and responsiveness. He succeeded.

Years after, he returned basically to save Apple. They used old MacOS graphical user interface with the NeXT system core to create MacOSX. Therefore, MacOSX is your friendly fancy Apple MacOS shell with one hell of a kernel beneath it.
 
Zare said:
BSD UNIX is a rock solid operating system marvel which basically invented the implementation of Internet, invented the critical data-serving operations, and still powers the Internet today and pushes the limits.

And the really vicious debates are not between Windows and OSX, but between various flavours of BSD  ;)
 
Zare said:
Perun shouldn't care about insights of configuration systems like registry or /etc tree, but Perun should care how his operating system behaves. Windows becomes sluggish over time, especially for end-users that like to install new software / games. MacOSX doesn't. That's the end-user experience.

Well mate, if you wanted to convert Perun, the very last thing to say is "Perun should". Anyway, with the amount of new software Perun installs, which is borderlining zero (Perun hasn't bought a piece of software for himself since 2003 if he remembers correctly), his operating system behaves just fine. If Perun had any sort of interest in new games or high-end technology for his personal use, maybe he'd feel otherwise. But as it is, Perun has worked his way around the flaws of Windows and has no interest in being taught new tricks, or getting used to something new just because it is less fascist. He has worked with Mac for a year, and he hated it.
 
Well then, if Perun doesn't game and Perun doesn't require new cutting-edge software, Perun could  :D try using some user-friendly flavour of Linux like Ubuntu. Why paying for operating system if you won't use it's advantages over free ones?

And the really vicious debates are not between Windows and OSX, but between various flavours of BSD

In beginnings after legal problems with AT&T in early '90s maybe...however now they cooperate nicely.  :)
Really, they are highly profiled, freeBSD for as all-around BSD, OpenBSD as ultimate security and NetBSD as ultimate portability.
 
I'm not sure why the topic has changed to solution as the portable Firefox is only really a workaround. It doesn't resolve the issues with IE8 and this forum. It helps with ___no5's issue, but no Foro's.

And Foro, Firefox was suggested months ago. ;)

And so it goes into the Mac/PC/Linux debate. Should this section of the topic be moved to GD and we can all have a good natter about it?
 
Zare said:
Well then, if Perun doesn't game and Perun doesn't require new cutting-edge software, Perun could  :D try using some user-friendly flavour of Linux like Ubuntu. Why paying for operating system if you won't use it's advantages over free ones?

I'm not paying for it in the first place. It came with my laptop.
Forostar said:
I know it was, but I hoped that something else could have been done about the problem.

Only an admin could help you with that, but we haven't have word from them in ages.
 
I'm not paying for it in the first place. It came with my laptop.

It was calculated in total laptop price. So yes, you paid it, or the person that bought that particular laptop.
 
Perhaps, but you can't get a laptop without that price calculated in. I already got the cheapest one there was.
 
LooseCannon said:

I took a look on that page and being amazed with the prices - mac book pro : $ 1199 or € 799  :eek:

I was ready to order a mac book pro, right there -surprise :  It's the US store
The price in France is : 1149 € or $ 1723 ridiculously higher of $ 500 !!  :mad:

But yet, is a good price for here standards, I'll buy one soon
 
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