Let's try and get 1,000,000 replies to this post

[Perun]

@____no5 this is not a startling revelation or something you need to wonder about. It's an established historical fact that Lenin had support from Germany when he returned to Russia. It's mainstream historical knowledge that is taught in schools. By saying 'probably', you or whoever told you this is trying to present it as some kind of outsider knowledge we're not supposed to talk about.

Also, you shouldn't have to be reminded that Germany was not part of "the West" in 1917. The fact that you instinctively use that term is quite telling about your worldview, and I'm genuinely wondering if the quiet part you or whatever YouTube channel told you about this isn't saying out loud is "Rothschilds/Jewish Bankers". Sorry to be so blunt, but I've had this conversation more than once and it always came down to this, so I'd prefer if we cut to the chase.

 

[Azas]

No_5 uses "The West" in negative connotation. Which is wrong from the get-go. Everybody knows that "The West" is the good guys. I hope nobody here will argue with sir John Ronald Ruel Tolkien.

Together we will take the road that leads into the West, And far away will find a land where both our hearts may rest.

Valinor, or the Blessed Realms, the home of the immortal Valar on the continent of Aman, far to the west of Middle-earth; It included Eldamar, the land of the Elves, who as immortals were permitted to live in Valinor.
Aman was known somewhat misleadingly as "the Undying Lands", but the land itself does not cause mortals to live forever. However, only immortal beings were generally allowed to reside there. Exceptions were made for the surviving bearers of the One Ring: Bilbo and Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee, who dwelt there for a time, and the dwarf Gimli.

So, let's fix this once and for all. The West is on the side of Good. No more no less.

 

[____no5]

@____no5 this is not a startling revelation or something you need to wonder about. It's an established historical fact that Lenin had support from Germany when he returned to Russia. It's mainstream historical knowledge that is taught in schools. By saying 'probably', you or whoever told you this is trying to present it as some kind of outsider knowledge we're not supposed to talk about.

Also, you shouldn't have to be reminded that Germany was not part of "the West" in 1917. The fact that you instinctively use that term is quite telling about your worldview, and I'm genuinely wondering if the quiet part you or whatever YouTube channel told you about this isn't saying out loud is "Rothschilds/Jewish Bankers". Sorry to be so blunt, but I've had this conversation more than once and it always came down to this, so I'd prefer if we cut to the chase.

Oh great now it's about "probably".
At least we can agree that Germany backed that. About the West I corrected it already, but still you decided to use my "instinctively" use of term.

 

[Diesel 11]

So, let's fix this once and for all. The West is on the side of Good. No more no less.

Tell that to the Native Americans. Or the Jews. Or the gays. Or the Romani. Or African Americans. Or women. Or trans people. Or Slavs. Or Asian Americans. Or the homeless.

All of these groups (and many more) have had long histories in what is called “The West” (a bullshit term anyway), but those histories are filled with suppression, persecution, and in some cases even genocide. I’m not saying that the “West” doesn’t have its positives, but to say that’s on the side of ‘good’ overlooks its long history of being fucking awful to people who were not straight white men.

 

[____no5]

The West is neither good or bad, Azas. It's the West.

 

[Azas]

Tell that to the Native Americans. Or the Jews. Or the gays. Or the Romani. Or African Americans. Or women. Or trans people. Or Slavs. Or Asian Americans. Or the homeless.

All of these groups (and many more) have had long histories in what is called “The West” (a bullshit term anyway), but those histories are filled with suppression, persecution, and in some cases even genocide. I’m not saying that the “West” doesn’t have its positives, but to say that’s on the side of ‘good’ overlooks its long history of being fucking awful to people who were not straight white men.

Our world is ain't Paradise. At least, Thew West tries to learn from the mistakes of the past. In some countries people are beheaded even today.

The West is neither good or bad, Azas. It's the West.

From my point of view The West is 1000% better than ruzzia, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, China, North Korea and alikes. I will lose my hopes only if Ukraine will be abandoned by them...

 

[____no5]

In some things better, in some not. There's not a perfect recipe.

Ukraine will not be fully abandoned no way, but I see some shifting of strategy into defensive /guerrilla warfare, provided rumors are true that Zaluzhny is sacked with Budanov ready to take over.

 

[Perun]

Oh great now it's about "probably".
At least we can agree that Germany backed that. About the West I corrected it already, but still you decided to use my "instinctively" use of term.

You didn't even properly read my post, let alone understand what I was saying.

 

[____no5]

I don't know Perun, too much focus on the negative side. I was quite disappointed. Also that Rothschild thing and your tone, I may haven't read too carefully but I got the message. Discussions must be based on good faith what there is to read if not? You are almost always technically correct if that makes you happy.

 

[Jer]

Ukraine will not be fully abandoned no way

You’d be surprised what might be possible if Trump wins re-election. Sure, Europe would still help out to the extent that they could, but without robust U.S. support Ukraine is probably going to be in an untenable position.

I apologize in advance if a few thousand people in a handful of swing states manage to fuck up the world again.

 

[____no5]

Trump is such an unpredictable factor, I would be not at the slightest surprised if things turn for the better for Ukraine if he gets elected. Not that he would provide more military aid, probably not, but he could intimidate or somehow tame Putin. Of course things could turn much worse for Ukraine and that's what most people expect.
The only thing I'm certain is that with Trump in power we wouldn't have war. But now we do have war and he enters the game, it's uncharted waters.
Also don't forget that Trump is very anti China, and now Russia -China is an axis something that wasn't during his term. We really can't know what Trump will do with Ukraine.

 

[Jer]

Trump is such an unpredictable factor, I would be not at the slightest surprised if things turn for the better for Ukraine if he gets elected. Not that he would provide more military aid, probably not, but he could intimidate or somehow tame Putin.

What historical evidence would give you any reason at all to think that Trump would ever intimidate, tame, or even lightly stand up to Putin? He sided with Putin over his own intelligence services, for fuck’s sake. He shared codeword-level intelligence with Lavrov that exposed an ally’s information-gathering methods, just to brag. Trump’s a chump where Putin’s concerned.

 

[LooseCannon]

Just look at the body language Trump had after their meeting. He acted like a docile little boy, in the room with his angry daddy.

 

[____no5]

Agreed with the above but we know for sure that Trump is as unpredictable as fuck, that Putin listens to him and that he somehow tamed Xi. He gave China hard time so why he can't give Russia a hard time? Remember, things were different then and now.

I am not saying he will definitely tame Putin he may appease Putin, but neither will surprise me.

EDIT: In 2016 I was afraid Trump he would be an agent of war. I was wrong. Look how Biden handled it, and not just in Ukraine, Palestine, Saudi made friends with Iran, BRICS grew, countries started to turn their backs to dollar. Afghanistan blew up in his hands too.

 

[LooseCannon]

He tamed Xi? By what, making Americans pay more money to import Chinese goods?

 

[Yax]

Trump today isn't even the Trump of 2016 or 2020. He is even worse, and he has shown that when he decides on something, he will double down and ride it all the way. Trump is the lightning rod, the one that has shifted the right wing's position on Ukraine. He will not change his mind and he will probably rip the west to shreds by his "MAGA FIRST, FUCK THE REST" doctrine. There are a few things that Trump evidently bases his world view on, and that is that the US must not get "ripped of", or put any sort of principle over short term "gains".

Regarding Xi and trade, that is also something fundamental of his world view. He thinks free trade gets the US ripped off, and he went with it all the way, same as he will go all the way in hanging the rest of the west out to dry, whether the US actually benefits from it or not.

 

[____no5]

He tamed Xi? By what, making Americans pay more money to import Chinese goods?

From what I remember he brought the trade deficit in more favorable terms for US. He also initiated the Trade War, not a small thing. Not that I like it but he was the one to start it.

Trump today isn't even the Trump of 2016 or 2020. He is even worse, and he has shown that when he decides on something, he will double down and ride it all the way.

If Trump is elected he will be more angry and powerful. And he has the know how now. I really don't know what to expect, for sure he would be another Trump.

 

[Yax]

From what I remember he brought the trade deficit in more favorable terms for US. He also initiated the Trade War, not a small thing. Not that I like it but he was the one to start it.



If Trump is elected he will be more angry and powerful. And he has the know how now. I really don't know what to expect, for sure he would be another Trump.

Given that they plan (and has explicitly admitted to it) to stack the entire US government and department apparatus' with absolute loyalists, and are currently screening thousands of possible staff, mean there will be no guard rails like there were the last time.

 

[____no5]

Trump is the lightning rod, the one that has shifted the right wing's position on Ukraine.

Trump did that? I've missed that part.

Regarding Xi and trade, that is also something fundamental of his world view. He thinks free trade gets the US ripped off, and he went with it all the way, same as he will go all the way in hanging the rest of the west out to dry, whether the US actually benefits from it or not.

Agree with this one. No matter how clever that move was (it wasn't) it gave a hard time in China. In the sense that the world started being suspicious to China after Trump. That stain never left. Combine this with Covid and you have a bloody nose.

 

[Vaenyr]

Agreed with the above but we know for sure that Trump is as unpredictable as fuck, that Putin listens to him and that he somehow tamed Xi. He gave China hard time so why he can't give Russia a hard time? Remember, things were different then and now.

I'm sorry but this is objectively and provably incorrect. Trump is Putin's lap dog. Not only did he not "tame" him; Trump will follow every single demand of Putin's like the good little boy that he is. No idea what media you consume, but I suggest you branch out a bit because this makes no sense whatsoever.