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Powergirl81
Trooper
I've never seen it, and I'm 26 now 
A
Anonymous
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____no5 said:
Not if Beethoven wasn't slobbering somebody's face, at least.
Depends on the Beethoven movie. I think Ludwig did some face-slobbering in "Immortal Beloved".
Speaking of dogs ... LOOK AT THIS DOG
Speaking of dogs ... LOOK AT THIS DOG
NO.
The "Immortal Beloved" was a real person. She is known by that name because that is how Beethoven addressed her in a love letter, which was discovered after Beethoven's death. Beethoven courted many women, and no one knows which one was the IB. The movie was about a fictional search for the IB (the search being fictional, not the I
.
Granted, no5 may have misunderstood the movie, or not remembered it correctly. I'm not trying to scold him. I'm only trying to make sure others aren't duped into thinking he's right.
As for the movie, I can understand where some might think it mediocre. Personally, as a Beethoven fanatic, I loved it.
The "Immortal Beloved" was a real person. She is known by that name because that is how Beethoven addressed her in a love letter, which was discovered after Beethoven's death. Beethoven courted many women, and no one knows which one was the IB. The movie was about a fictional search for the IB (the search being fictional, not the I
.Granted, no5 may have misunderstood the movie, or not remembered it correctly. I'm not trying to scold him. I'm only trying to make sure others aren't duped into thinking he's right.
As for the movie, I can understand where some might think it mediocre. Personally, as a Beethoven fanatic, I loved it.
____no5
Free Man
SinisterMinisterX said:NO.
The "Immortal Beloved" was a real person. She is known by that name because that is how Beethoven addressed her in a love letter, which was discovered after Beethoven's death. Beethoven courted many women, and no one knows which one was the IB. The movie was about a fictional search for the IB (the search being fictional, not the I
Granted, no5 may have misunderstood the movie, or not remembered it correctly. I'm not trying to scold him. I'm only trying to make sure others aren't duped into thinking he's right.
As for the movie, I can understand where some might think it mediocre. Personally, as a Beethoven fanatic, I loved it.
....I don't have seen it yet, just reproduce what I had read in that review (some 15 years before, maybe I don't remember so good)
...don't forget that in movies usually we change the script to make it more attractive
...anyway, your words made me want to see that movie, I don't know many things about Beethoven's life -and I would like to
...I was allways more in Mozart's field -apparently these two giants had met each other -not for a long time, but Mozart gave some lessons to young Beethoven
____no5
Free Man
Onhell said:Amadeus is to this day one of my favorite filmsHis laughter was infectious HAHAHAHAHA.
you said it !!
is that movie that put me inside Mozart
after that I bought some records, some biographies, and his letters
this actor that did Mozart's role got lost though, I only remember to have seen him in Frankenstein after that
____no5 said:
Close, but not quite correct. Their meeting occurred when Beethoven was around 20 years old; he was not yet famous, but Mozart was the most famous musician in Europe at the time. Thus, Mozart wouldn't teach just anyone. Prospective students had to audition for him. That was the purpose of their meeting. Beethoven auditioned for Mozart, but Mozart declined to teach him; thus, Mozart gave him no lessons.
Regardless, Mozart was very impressed with Beethoven's piano skills. He reported said (the German equivalent of) "Someday, this young man will set the world on fire".
That audition was the only time they ever met.
Mozart had good reason to be impressed by Beethoven's piano skills. Within a few more years, Beethoven became known as one of the greatest piano players in Europe. He was especially known for his ability to improvise new pieces on the spot. I don't just mean what musicians today might call "jamming". I mean he would spontaneously create new pieces, complete with classical structures and traditions. The modern equivalent would be a musician writing a song on the spot: improvising something with the structure of verses and choruses that we would recognize as a song, not just a solo.
Obviously, there are no recordings of Beethoven's improvisations - but we do have some idea of what they sounded like. Most of his early piano sonatas are believed to be heavily based on his best improvisations: he remembered them, refined them and published the music. Notably, this includes the famous "Pathetique" sonata. Amazing as it sounds, Beethoven actually improvised something very close to that masterpiece.
Just because Mozart rejected Beethoven doesn't mean Beethoven didn't have some big-name teachers. The most famous was Franz Joseph Haydn. Though Haydn isn't quite as famous today as Beethoven or Mozart, he has always been regarded as the third giant of the Classical era after Ludwig and Wolfgang.
You might be thinking, "what about Bach? isn't he more famous than Haydn?" I'm using the narrower sense of the word "Classical" here. Music historians define the Classical era as being roughly 1750 to 1825. J. S. Bach was the giant of the Baroque era (1675-1750). Many other famous names (Brahms, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, etc) are from the Romantic era (1825-1900).
That concludes today's lecture. There will be a test on this material next Thursday.
____no5
Free Man
Albie said:I can't be bothered to revise, so I'll just wing it.
the wings of the beast
---------------------
interesting stuff about Beethoven's improvisation skills -I surely didn't know that he was such an improvisation monster
*wondering where Mozart would have reach if he had lived some 20 years more*
SinisterMinisterX said:
I have somewhere some edited letters of Mozart, and in one of them, Mozart recommends Beethoven to Haydn
Unfortunately this book is some thousands miles away from where I live, so I can't check it, but is quite possible that the quote
Mozart said:
comes from this recommandation letter
dogigniter
Ancient Mariner
eggs
Ah yes, no5 is correct. I had forgotten that detail. It was indeed Mozart who was largely responsible for bringing together Beethoven and Haydn.
Now playing: Genesis, "Watcher Of The Skies" (live, from 1973's Genesis Live). Phil Collin's drumming on this live album is outstanding. If you think he was just a singer from the 80s, you need to know that he was a monster drummer in the 70s - easily on par with guys like Neal Peart or Bill Bruford.
Now playing: Genesis, "Watcher Of The Skies" (live, from 1973's Genesis Live). Phil Collin's drumming on this live album is outstanding. If you think he was just a singer from the 80s, you need to know that he was a monster drummer in the 70s - easily on par with guys like Neal Peart or Bill Bruford.
Raven
Ancient Mariner
SinisterMinisterX said:
How the hell...?
Another piece of composer trivia; it's believed now that Bach (J.S.) wasn't actually a good musician. He was, however, a great mathematician, which is why all of his pieces are extremely precise and offer little personal expression for the performer. Sort of like an 18th Century Meshuggah or Dream Theater.
Can't beat a bit of Bach, though.
Also, I've got Rock in Rio on my new Zen now, in teeny-weeny 'Eyestrain-o-vision'[sup]TM[/sup]!
I have to disagree somewhat with some of what you said, Raven...
I haven't heard much about the suspicion that Bach was, at best, average as a performer. I have heard some of that, just not many details. What I have heard is that he was an excellent organist, and his skills were only lacking on other instruments.
More importantly, to say that Bach's pieces offer little room for interpretation is not at all true. Find a copy of Glenn Gould's famous recording of The Goldberg Variations, and compare it to any other recording of the same piece. If most people all sound the same when they play Bach, it's not the composer's fault. It's more because a tradition has developed about playing Bach a certain way, and few have the guts to break that tradition.
Furthermore, Bach's music actually often demands interpretation from the performer. Bach notated much of his music with ornamentation symbols, which are instructions to the musician to "play a little lick here", roughly speaking. In fact, it was all that ornamentation that got Bach's music labeled as "Baroque". Additionally, Bach wrote a great deal of music without basslines. He just wrote melodies and indications of what chord should accompany it. If you know your music history, I'm talking about figured bass here. When playing such music, the performer must improvise the entire bass part based on Bach's vague directions.
Finally, very little mathematics are needed for writing music. You need to be able to follow established rules of whatever style you're using, and you need a sense of structure which is more architectural than mathematical. I mean, when's the last time you used trigonometry when playing a guitar solo? Precision doesn't necessarily imply the use of math.
I haven't heard much about the suspicion that Bach was, at best, average as a performer. I have heard some of that, just not many details. What I have heard is that he was an excellent organist, and his skills were only lacking on other instruments.
More importantly, to say that Bach's pieces offer little room for interpretation is not at all true. Find a copy of Glenn Gould's famous recording of The Goldberg Variations, and compare it to any other recording of the same piece. If most people all sound the same when they play Bach, it's not the composer's fault. It's more because a tradition has developed about playing Bach a certain way, and few have the guts to break that tradition.
Furthermore, Bach's music actually often demands interpretation from the performer. Bach notated much of his music with ornamentation symbols, which are instructions to the musician to "play a little lick here", roughly speaking. In fact, it was all that ornamentation that got Bach's music labeled as "Baroque". Additionally, Bach wrote a great deal of music without basslines. He just wrote melodies and indications of what chord should accompany it. If you know your music history, I'm talking about figured bass here. When playing such music, the performer must improvise the entire bass part based on Bach's vague directions.
Finally, very little mathematics are needed for writing music. You need to be able to follow established rules of whatever style you're using, and you need a sense of structure which is more architectural than mathematical. I mean, when's the last time you used trigonometry when playing a guitar solo? Precision doesn't necessarily imply the use of math.