Let's try and get 1,000,000 replies to this post

Wästed The Great

Minister Of Chicks, Metal&Beer; Cool & Froody Dude
Staff member
OH, yeah.. which is one of the things I like about her-- she wants things like that to be just for me and not anyone else; a very cool thought, that one!
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Well, I finally did it.  I finally lost it on another forum I post on, wherein an American was throwing up tons of mindless Memorial Day patriotism.
 

Albie

Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
I like Mondays when it's a public holiday - like today. In those such weeks, I hate Tuesdays (especially when I have been off for the last week and tomorrow is my first day back for around 10 days).
 

Wästed The Great

Minister Of Chicks, Metal&Beer; Cool & Froody Dude
Staff member
Albie said:
I like Mondays when it's a public holiday - like today. In those such weeks, I hate Tuesdays (especially when I have been off for the last week and tomorrow is my first day back for around 10 days).

That one I get!  luckily for me, today is a holiday, and tomorrow is my regular day off-- so, as a rarity, I get a 3-day weekend.  Usually it is 'off sunday, work monday, off Tuesday'

LooseCannon said:

Wait... women, or woman? 
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Invader said:

I'll post it in a second.

Wasted CLV said:
Wait... women, or woman? 

Woman.

Rant:
LC said:
No. Because Memorial Day is an American holiday, and the world does not revolve around the United States.

Let me quantify this statement. I love America. Aside from Canada, it's my favourite country in the world. But the United States doesn't really understand suffering like the rest of the world does, not in war. Not like the rest of the Western World.

Sure, the USA has fought in some wars, and had some rough battles. But where was America during the worst battles? During the greatest battles? During the terror and horror of Stalingrad? The Somme? Passchendaele? Monte Cassino? Where was America when tens of thousands of British and Allied sailors perished in the frozen Atlantic between 1939 and 1942? How many Americans drowned in the mud-soaked fields of Belgium, or gave their lives to evict entrenched Germans from the Scheldt?

Memorial Day was established to remember the dead of the American Civil War. It was established so that the War Between The States never fades in American memory. Instead, it's become this bastardized celebration of loving the United States and perpetuating the myth of American invincibility, instead of a quiet day of remembrance for brothers slaying brothers; for the sad stories of the like of Armistead vs. Hancock; for the quiet words of a man named Lee: "It is well that war is so terrible, lest we should grow too fond of it."

My father serves with the Canadian Forces, and he has served alongside our American allies in Bosnia and in Afghanistan, and I sigh inwardly when an American service person dies in combat. We all lose a little, a little bravery, a little courage, and a little of what makes the West great. But the assumption that we are all celebrating, or remembering on this May holiday is callous and insulting to those who are not Americans, to those Canadians, British, French and more who have bled crimson blood alongside their American allies.

From the Canadians who stormed the Normandy beaches beside their American brethren, or the English who jumped into France beside the 101st and 82nd; to the Frenchmen who fought beside the storied US Marine Corps in Belleau Wood and the Australians and New Zealanders who died in Korea, or Vietnam, under the command of men like MacArthur and Westmoreland; or the Hessians who fought the British with Washington; the soldiers of Lafayette who died so that America could be more than a small colony - or the thousands of English, Canadians, and French who travelled to the United States to fight in the Union Army in the 1860s - so many bodies put into the ground to fight the great wars of our civilization's time that did not have coffins draped in the Star Spangled Banner.

Freedom isn't free - but it is not only the blood of Americans that has bought freedom for the world. Thank you to all the men and women serving in the great democracies of our time; thank you to all those who have died so we may continue to enjoy the life and liberty we today have; and I have the greatest love and honour for those who died selflessly, to those who travelled to wars overseas to fight for homes not their own, and those who died not for my freedoms...but for someone else's. And yes, so many Americans fall into this category. So many died in France; so many died in Italy, and for this we can never be thankful. But on Memorial Day, this year and every year, I urge my American friends to remember it was not only the Star Spangled Banner that specked the beaches of Northern France 65 years ago; I urge those to the south of me to remember that the 20th Maine had over 50 Canadians in it, who charged down Little Round Top with bayonets fixed; remember the brave souls who have stood side by side with lads and ladies from Iowa, New York, and Texas in every war the United States has ever fought.

We are all in this together, and mindless patriotism, forgetting the price fully paid, serves us not. Forgetting this price is, quite frankly....un-American.
 

Wästed The Great

Minister Of Chicks, Metal&Beer; Cool & Froody Dude
Staff member
LC, man, that was outstanding!  I think a lot of us (here in the states) kinda forget what that is all about, and get wound up in racing, drinking, grilling and goofing off-- sleeping in on the day off, marking it as the beginning of summer.  Great post to remember what that is about, and to put it in perspective in the world theater.
 

Arran_Ramone

Invader
That "rant" was really good actually.
All too often on forums, people rant about things but not in a well written, cohesive manner.

Well done to you for showing up the "blind patriotism" as you call it, i think a lot of people, especially in the U.S needed that kind of talk to remind them that the U.S.A isnt the only country to have lost a large amount of soldiers in global conflicts.
 

Invader

Ancient Mariner
LooseCannon said:
"Today (Memorial Day) is the day to give thanks to all the Americans who died so the world can be free."

I wonder what he was referring to, the Second World War probably.  But what a lot of people seem to forget is that half of Europe ended up no freer than before after that war, and not all those who stayed free got help from the Americans (or any other allies for that matter).
 

Perun

After the war?
Staff member
Invader said:
I wonder what he was referring to, the Second World War probably.  But what a lot of people seem to forget is that half of Europe ended up no freer than before after that war,

Yes, and hadn't it been for the Western Allies, the other half of Europe would also have ended up under Soviet occupation. I for one am very glad that my family had somewhere to run to.

and not all those who stayed free got help from the Americans (or any other allies for that matter).

What other Allies? The only major Allied countries that played any sort of role in Europe that were not completely crippled by the war and hence on the giver side of the Marshall Plan were the US and Canada. Help from the Marshall Plan was offered to all European countries; the only country that remained free of Soviet influence after the war and did not benefit from the Marshall Plan was Finland- because it rejected the offer for fear of the Soviets. I believe that is what you are referring to.
 

Invader

Ancient Mariner
Perun said:
Yes, and hadn't it been for the Western Allies, the other half of Europe would also have ended up under Soviet occupation. I for one am very glad that my family had somewhere to run to.

That is counterfactual speculation, since if Hitler had never declared been at war with the other allies, who knows what might have happened.  But you have a point.  My point was mainly that the Second World War freed Europe from fascism, but not totalitarianism; it was brought up in one Cold War book I read a few months ago and I thought the author made a rather good point.

the only country that remained free of Soviet influence after the war and did not benefit from the Marshall Plan was Finland- because it rejected the offer for fear of the Soviets. I believe that is what you are referring to.

If my memory serves me correct, Czechoslovakia was independent and not under Soviet influence proper when it refused the Marshall plan (went over to the Soviet block in 1948), so that makes two.  But I meant military help mainly, since that was the original subject of discussion.  And neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland also stayed free, and to the best of my knowledge were not at major risk of communist take-over after the war either. 

But yeah, you got what I was referring to pretty much.
 
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