Judas Priest

Looking back at Priests output, I’m struck by how quick they were at times to adapt the hot style of the day in heavy music. Turbo (def leppard), British Steel (AC/DC ).

They’re gifted enough they rarely get flak for it, but it’s there.

Rocka Rolla is a straightaway Black Sabbath wannabe.
 
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Forostar said:
Priest did not play that material for a long time due to some copyright problem, I believe. Or was that only about releasing the material.
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It was only about releasing the material, as they had no problems playing song off the (vastly superior) Sad Wings of Destiny.
 
Forostar said:
Even if Rocka Rolla did not turn out as a heavy album, it possesses atmosphere, neat little riffs, intriguing lyrics and challenging singing. There's a certain darkness and originality in Priest's seventies that I really appreciate.
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Yeah, you clearly like this album a lot more than I do and that's fine. I definitely agree that there is something interesting going on with this album, but to my ears it sounds like a band still finding their actual sound. I definitely agree about the atmosphere and some of the riffs. Halford definitely begins to show his pipes here (especially on Run of the Mill), but his style has not completely yet mixed with the band's style.

Most of the lyrics, on the other hand, I find to be lacking in substance.

- One for the Road is my biggest rock pet peeve: a rock song about being a rock song.
- Rocka Rolla is a song about badass woman. The lyrical intent isn't bad, but the chorus lyrics are so dated now and sound silly.
- Cheater is literally a tale of cheating, nothing more. I find nothing interesting here.
- Never Satisfied is also very simplistic. I truly like this song but there's nothing special in the lyrical content. I do quite like the structure, though.
- I quite like the lyrics in Dying to Meet You and Hero, Hero, but the melodies are nothing special (especially in the former).
 
Knick, I don't think this band had one sound. I am seeing these old records as own identities I can enjoy. I like more seventies music and find Priest's seventies music among the best of all seventies music. Not per se this album, but the next batch certainly. Because it sounds different than later work one can argue that they did not find their style yet. But what if the (e.g. seventies) music is at least as enjoyable (as e.g. eighties)? Then it doesn't matter that much that it is different.

They changed a couple of times and with the arrival of Dave Holland they settled for compact hard rock about partying, sex and rock and roll.
Very substantial lyrics! Come on. :) Although it doesn't show on various Rocka Rolla songs, their seventies lyrics are not less substantial than their average eighties or later lyrics. For the rest: Priest's lyrics are probably not that important compared to their music and vocals. That's where their power lies, I'd say.

On Halford's voice, I'd say he's doing a lot of different things where as he stuck to less different colours on later work. Experimenting? Finding/fitting a style? Or just more room for different vocals on older records? Anyway, looking forward to the next albums! :ok:
 
GhostofCain said:
It was only about releasing the material, as they had no problems playing song off the (vastly superior) Sad Wings of Destiny.
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Correct but for decades they only played a few songs from that album (at least since the eighties), and I felt it as no coincidence that these were also released on Unleashed, an album they had control over.
 
Forostar said:
On Halford's voice, I'd say he's doing a lot of different things where as he stuck to less different colours on later work. Experimenting? Finding/fitting a style? Or just more room for different vocals on older records? Anyway, looking forward to the next albums! :ok:
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That is certainly a great argument. From the little of Priest that I've heard after this album, I can definitely say that album leaves tons and tons of space for different melodies whereas the later stuff (as a whole) probably has more of a direct path laid out for the vocals.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Rocka Rolla (1974)

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Yes, that's the cover from the reissue because that's the version that's on Spotify and thus the version to which I listened. Overall, I liked this more than I expected to despite its lack of coherence and average songwriting.

One for the Road - 7/10
A groovy, slinky opener with some average vocals and some pretty bad lyrics. It's readily apparent that this is a 70s record through and through. None of the Priest trademarks of what I know to be "the Judas Priest sound" are here except for the obvious two guitars. It's a fun song, but sounds more like something that should be in the middle of a record instead of the opener. I can groove to it, at least.

Rocka Rolla - 5/10
This one is not my favorite. Halford's doing that slurry, talk-singing thing and overall this sounds more like it should be played in front of a disco ball than a stack of Marshalls. The music is alright, but too cheery and plinky for me. Wait, what's that, a harmonica?! Okay. The chorus is quite silly.

Winter/Deep Freeze/Winter Retreat - 7/10
Apparently this was not originally released as a single long track, but I actually think it (mostly) works better this way. It's big and groovey and doomy and I can definitely hear Rodger Bain's Sabbath-influenced production shining through here. The first half of "Winter Retreat" is a throwaway and quite annoying, but hey, overindulgence was the name of the game in the 70s. The second half sounds like Pink Floyd to me and I'm no interested.

Cheater - 5/10
I don't care about the reissue here, this song is clearly not meant to be part of this "suite". Tonally different, subject matter is different...Also, including it with the previous three tracks would really hurt the score of the superior suite. The main riff just sounds like "My Sharona" and I can't help but sing that in my head over and over (yes, I know it came out 5 years after this). This is not a song I'll listen to again. Actually, if I go back to this album I'll probably just skip ahead after "Deep Freeze."

Never Satisfied - 9/10
I'll admit I was already familiar with this song due to an Armored Saint cover (which I still prefer). However, this is easily the best song on this collection and certainly hints at Priest's direction. A really good, classic 70s hard rock banger, this one.

Run of the Mill - 8/10
This is another one of those songs that sounds more like Priest's inspirations (I can assume Floyd and Zeppelin) than it sounds like Priest. It's a really long drudge. I don't inherently dislike this (except for the clunky lyrics), but it's too spacious and too boring to be a classic. We do get the first real taste of Halford's range in this song, though, which adds an extra point.

Dying to Meet You - 3/10
Cool music here, but I really hate Halford's baritone vocals. The problem isn't is tone, which is quite impressive, but the melody is bunk. Those extended ending notes are as grating than a poor Blaze recording. Easily my least favorite track here.

Hero, Hero - 5/10
Another hidden/squashed track?! What the hell was happening with this album pressing? This sounds more like what I was expecting from Halford on this record, but it's simply not a great song. Not terrible, but the tone of the guitars aren't big enough to hold up to Rob's wailing.

Caviar and Meths - 4/10
A pointless instrumental to close the album. Why didn't they put "Run of the Mill" at the end? Silliness. It's a nice little piece of subdued music, but completely unmemorable.

Album rating - 5.8

Technically there is a cover of Joan Baez's "Diamonds and Rust" at the end of this reissue but it's definitely not from the same sessions. The band sounds way more natural and the production is glossier. It would get a 7 or 8/10 from me because it's nice and tight, even if it's a strange choice of a cover.

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Couple observations on points where I think I can add something.

Rocka Rolla might be cheesy and silly but you understate how downright catchy it is.
As you make your way through the Priest discography, you are going to find that one of their under-discussed weapons is Halford’s gift for pop melodies.
Also “that talky-slurry thing” to me is an early example of the colour Rob is often trying to add to his vocals; he’s not just singing, he’s performing.

On a critical level, Run of the Mill is probably worthy of the love Foro (and I think Flash) give it. I just find it kinda dull. I get why Foro likes it, he’s a big doom fan and this really has that atmosphere.

I relistened to the album through closely and twice and liked it better the second time.
But I was also reminded why I rarely listen to it; the Priest I love is an aggressive band and this music is not.
It’s not bad, but mostly to me its just mopey and not very memorable.
It occupies an emotional space I don’t share.
 
The problem with Rocka Rolla is that it's just not very "Priest" like....Yet. But for what it is, a more mellow, blues based hard rock album it's OK. Nothing groundbreaking though as there were already a ton of hard rock albums just like this one in the mid 70s. All the makings of classic Priest are there though. Halford can already hit the high shrieks, the interplay between KK and Tipton is also there sporadically. They just haven't figured out how to collectively use and maximize these strengths yet. Next album, Sad Wings of Destiny, is a huge improvement on that front...That's when we start getting the riffs/guitar work and the voice of classic Priest.

My fave tracks on Rocka are probably Never Satisfied and Run of the Mill...
 
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I file the first Priest album in a similar category as debuts from bands such as Rush, Dream Theater, Iced Earth, etc. Some OK stuff here and there but pretty mediocre for the most part. Rocka Rolla is one of the better "mediocre" debuts though. Rob Halford's vocals aren't there yet but are already showing potential both from a technical and a theatrical angle. There are some nice heavy riffs and guitar harmonies sprinkled throughout but it's a very cluttered album overall. I'm with Mckindog for the most part, a lot of it is mopey and not very memorable. One For the Road as the opener also doesn't do the album any favors. I've tried to get into Run Of the Mill many times but to me it's a track that starts strong before being bogged down with meandering guitar leads that ultimately don't go anywhere. The Winter suite is the same way.

My favorite track is easily the title song. Nice groove, lots of energy, a great guitar harmony. The rest I can take or leave.

It's worth mentioning that the producer had a lot to do with how this album turned out. A lot of what got rejected ended up being some of the most memorable material on the next album. Caviar and Meths is also incomplete. Who knows what other musical changes were made by outside forces.

I actually like the version of Diamonds and Rust that appears as a bonus track on Rocka Rolla better than the Sin After Sin version. From what I understand though this was a completely different session than either the Sad Wings or Rocka Rolla albums.
 
It is from the Sad Wings of Destiny sessions but never used for that or any other an official album, thus for many years it popped up as rare/compilation track for Gull label releases. Such as this one from 1977:
https://www.discogs.com/Judas-Priest-The-Best-Of-Judas-Priest/release/2882851

And Hero, Hero I earlier talked about. From 1982:
https://www.discogs.com/Judas-Priest-Hero-Hero/release/962289

Apparently since a relative recent while it is placed on Rocka Rolla as a bonus. Not very correct but I can see that the band might not wish to change the Sad Wings album legacy/feel too much. Basically it can be argued that it is a recording that does not "fit" to both albums but it exists and it is a bonus and most important: it makes the Priest catalogue more complete, so I'm fine with it. I like it a lot too. Not sure if more than the other, but I really like it.

The reasons for me liking Run of the Mill are numerous but I won't bore you with too much repetition. The solo can be seen as meandering, but in a way a solo can do that, e.g. as in jazz. Still, I like it for its variety and (at some point) build up in intensity. There are constant factors underneath, such as that pulsating bass and great beat. I love how it switches at some point. Try to predict/feel the moment when the drummer goes to his ride cymbal. Ian Hill changes the bass playing as well, adding more higher notes. It's really a pleasure for the hears (and mind!) I think. Recommended with headphones on especially!

@MrKnickerbocker
On the soloing. KK Downing was the more experienced lead guitarist at that time. I think he does the most on the debut album. Tipton learned to to play along the way so to speak. First he started to feel more comfortable in slower solos such as in Dreamer Deceiver. On later albums he kept improving. You can compare his development in a way with Adrian Smith. Dave was always the talented one, better in the beginning. Also he, like KK can be seen as one with wilder, more bending, somewhat more aggressive style. So there's another Priest/Maiden comparison.

For the Sad Wings songs we can learn via Unleashed in the East who does what. It features five Sad Wings songs. Dreamer Deceiver and Deceiver were broadcast on TV. The only guitar driven song without proper live footage is Island of Domination. There is the Reading bootleg so we can still guess. Is there a specific solo part you wish to know about? If just everything I will try to make an overview for you.
 
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I think what I like the most about Run of The Mill is the atmosphere and particular the moody and theatrical vocals of Halford in the verses. Its sort of the template for stuff they would later do on Victim of Changes and other epics. Yes, the solo in the middle doesn't serve much purpose in driving the song forward but I still enjoy it. Who plays the solo there by the way?
 
That long, main solo is Downing. The intro is Tipton.

This is what Downing posted on his website:

Lead Break Credits:
One For The Road – K.K.
Rocka Rolla -K.K./Glenn/K.K./Glenn/K.K./Glenn, harmonica Rob, outro Glenn
Deep Freeze – K.K.
Cheater – Glenn, harmonica Rob
Never Satisfied – K.K.
Run Of The Mill – intro Glenn, main solo K.K.
Dying To Meet You – Harmony together, solo K.K.

Basically: everything KK, apart from Rocka Rolla, Cheater and Run of the Mill intro.
I just listened to everything myself before reading this info and thought the Cheater solo would be by K.K. I don't count all that stuff in Rocka Rolla as guitar solos. The only real solo in my ears is at the end, noted by Ken as "outro Glenn". Here you can hear and see exactly who does what:

By the way, do you guys know it was done live in the studio?

K.K.'s comments (from 2016):

“We went into the studio really well prepared. In those days, we had to play the songs together just like we did live. It was all a bit nerve wrecking, really, because if there were too many mistakes, it was easier to record the whole thing again. So, you can imagine, some songs had no problem at all, but some we had to do more times than we would have liked.

I remember using different studios, which didn’t really help, but it was just down to availability of studio time. I also remember sleeping in the van outside the studio before the sessions, not ideal for sure, so it was a bit like boot camp at times.

We were very young and very enthusiastic, and worked hard, although it wasn’t easy doing improvised solos when, sometimes, my brain was telling me “just go to sleep”.

The last day of recording came, and we were well behind, as is the case with most bands, so it was time to catch up with a 36-hour session. We just finished the last mix, turned around, and Roger, our producer, was fast asleep on the couch. So we woke him up, he had the difficult task of mastering the album upstairs in the cutting room.

When we all got home, we played our record, and we were somewhat disappointed, because we felt that it did not have the heaviness of what we had all been listening to during the mixes.

Anyway, to this day, we are not sure what happened. It certainly was acceptable and understandable if tiredness was the culprit, but not if the brief from the record company was not to let it sound too heavy. I guess we will never know, but the whole experience was wonderful and, at least, it was a start, and is now a piece of my cherished and beloved history!

Now that time has moved on, I look upon our first album as a triumph for Priest, because when all said and done, it started the machinery rolling for Priest to become the success that it is. With memorable songs like Never Satisfied, Winter and Run Of The Mill it is hard not to want to turn back the clock and get out there on stage and play these songs one last time.”

@MrKnickerbocker here the lead break credits on Sad Wings of Destiny according to Downing's site:

Lead Break Credits:
Victim Of Changes – 1st lead K.K., 2nd lead Glenn
The Ripper – Glenn
Dreamer Deceiver – Glenn
Deceiver – K.K.
Prelude – Glenn
Tyrant – 1st lead Glenn, 2nd lead Glenn & K.K. together
Genocide – licks Glenn/K.K./Glenn & K.K. together, lead Glenn
Epitaph – piano Glenn
Island Of Domination – licks K.K.

My view: Tyrant has one (long) solo by Glenn. Genocide also seems to have exaggerated info. Perhaps every second of non rhythm guitar is described here. Best thing to do: listen to Unleashed in the East and judge for yourself.
 
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Perhaps the chorus indeed. But these verses are very good ("not bad" is not very complimentary for such catchiness) and I like the solos a lot as well.
 
mckindog said:
As you make your way through the Priest discography, you are going to find that one of their under-discussed weapons is Halford’s gift for pop melodies.
Also “that talky-slurry thing” to me is an early example of the colour Rob is often trying to add to his vocals; he’s not just singing, he’s performing.
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I've only gone through Sad Wings once so far and won't post my final thoughts yet, but I have to say: I'm really waiting for more pop melodies. Whenever Rob hits those melodies, I love his voice. Same with his ballad singing, which is almost musical theater in its delivery. However, this "colour" and performing you're talking about is what I find most unappealing about the band so far (and one of my big reasons for not getting into them in the past). I'm gonna give it a fair couple more go arounds, but one of the things I'm finding immediately off-putting about Sad Wings is how Rob tends to perform these vocals and melodies (especially in the verses) with almost an elasticity - as if the the melodies have no true form or structure. He pushes and pulls the words, crams them in one minute and draws them out the next, when I feel like it would have sounded much, much better with a more direct melody. It's almost as if he's singing every song live at a gig to a bunch of people who already know the straight melody...if that makes any sense?

Mosh said:
I file the first Priest album in a similar category as debuts from bands such as Rush, Dream Theater, Iced Earth, etc. Some OK stuff here and there but pretty mediocre for the most part. Rocka Rolla is one of the better "mediocre" debuts though. Rob Halford's vocals aren't there yet but are already showing potential both from a technical and a theatrical angle. There are some nice heavy riffs and guitar harmonies sprinkled throughout but it's a very cluttered album overall. I'm with Mckindog for the most part, a lot of it is mopey and not very memorable. One For the Road as the opener also doesn't do the album any favors. I've tried to get into Run Of the Mill many times but to me it's a track that starts strong before being bogged down with meandering guitar leads that ultimately don't go anywhere. The Winter suite is the same way.
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This is pretty much how I feel. And I completely understand the first album jitters: it happens all the time. The difference here is that Halford was in the band from the beginning. I'm trying to think of another band with a debut that was not sonically formed yet, but that retained their original lead singer, and I'm coming up short...?

Forostar said:
On the soloing. KK Downing was the more experienced lead guitarist at that time. I think he does the most on the debut album. Tipton learned to to play along the way so to speak. First he started to feel more comfortable in slower solos such as in Dreamer Deceiver. On later albums he kept improving. You can compare his development in a way with Adrian Smith. Dave was always the talented one, better in the beginning. Also he, like KK can be seen as one with wilder, more bending, somewhat more aggressive style. So there's another Priest/Maiden comparison.

For the Sad Wings songs we can learn via Unleashed in the East who does what. It features five Sad Wings songs. Dreamer Deceiver and Deceiver were broadcast on TV. The only guitar driven song without proper live footage is Island of Domination. There is the Reading bootleg so we can still guess. Is there a specific solo part you wish to know about? If just everything I will try to make an overview for you.
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Thanks for this, it explains a lot! No need to make a full overview, it seems KK Downing's site is plenty good for the solo breaks. Thanks a lot!
 
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